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DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever
DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever
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Old 9th February 2018, 10:38 PM   #1511
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever
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What is it capable of then, in your opinion?
Not an opinion. A fact. ABX is designed to (emphatically) show that 2 DUT are different. If the null hypotheis is disproved you can be highly confident that the DUT are different. ABX is quite strong in this direction. So strong that it is so weak to as be useless in the other direction.

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Old 9th February 2018, 10:45 PM   #1512
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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The point is to test something for audibility, so if we're being technical, the only DUT I'm interested in is the person.

Whether or not something is electrically different is irrelevant.
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Old 9th February 2018, 10:55 PM   #1513
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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You are the one bringing up electrically.

ABX is a test of hearing differences.

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Old 9th February 2018, 11:11 PM   #1514
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
The point is to test something for audibility, so if we're being technical, the only DUT I'm interested in is the person.
You can learn something about what the person can hear if the person is willing to cooperate and you know how to test. Testing hearing is essentially like other testing of humans, particularly medical testing. How ears and brains process sound is complex. There are more ways to prevent the test subject from hearing something that enabling it.

1. They need to feel comfortable.

2. They need to be able to compare short passages quickly, due to the persistence of auditory memory in the brain. It's easy to remember that a difference was heard, but exactly what it was is lost pretty quickly, often in a few seconds.

3. The person must not be distracted during the test. They must understand how to operate the equipment and doing so should not take attention away from listening. Remember, when they said they could hear a difference, they weren't paying attention to operating equipment.

4. There is a page at wikipedia with some more information, please see the section on Potential Flaws: ABX test - Wikipedia

5. Very detailed information for best practices to get accurate results may be found here: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...2-I!!PDF-E.pdf Please see Attachments 1-3 to Annex 1.
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:20 PM   #1515
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
You are the one bringing up electrically.

ABX is a test of hearing differences.

dave
I didn't bring up the null.

ABX only needs to do one thing for me, and that's injecting plausibility into subjective listening impressions, which is the only real thing it fails to do.

At least, those are the only buttons I can find on my version of foo_abx, perhaps there's an alternate version floating around I haven't seen.
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:21 PM   #1516
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
You can learn something about what the person can hear if the person is willing to cooperate and you know how to test. Testing hearing is essentially like other testing of humans, particularly medical testing. How ears and brains process sound is complex. There are more ways to prevent the test subject from hearing something that enabling it.

1. They need to feel comfortable.

2. They need to be able to compare short passages quickly, due to the persistence of auditory memory in the brain. It's easy to remember that a difference was heard, but exactly what it was is lost pretty quickly, often in a few seconds.

3. The person must not be distracted during the test. They must understand how to operate the equipment and doing so should not take attention away from listening. Remember, when they said they could hear a difference, they weren't paying attention to operating equipment.

4. There is a page at wikipedia with some more information, please see the section on Potential Flaws: ABX test - Wikipedia

5. Very detailed information for best practices to get accurate results may be found here: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...2-I!!PDF-E.pdf Please see Attachments 1-3 to Annex 1.
Yep, and all of those things are true in a normal listening session while someone is popping off at the mouth about how great the treble is in their new amp, so.
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:29 PM   #1517
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
Yep, and all of those things are true in a normal listening session while someone is popping off at the mouth about how great the treble is in their new amp, so.
It doesn't matter the conditions then. You were not trying to conduct an accurate test then. If the person fails, it shouldn't be because you made sure they would.
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:31 PM   #1518
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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I didn't bring up the null.
Sure you did. Any comment that suggests that there are no differences when they participate in an ABX test and are not able to reliably discern any differences is misusing the failure to disprove the null hypothesis.

Quote:
ABX only needs to do one thing for me, and that's injecting plausibility into subjective listening impressions, which is the only real thing it fails to do.
It only does that if it shows a difference.

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Old 9th February 2018, 11:37 PM   #1519
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I'm having a really hard time understanding what mental gymnastics move you're trying to coax me into making, but I really don't think it's going to work.
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:39 PM   #1520
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My point is very simple, if you claim something is audible, you should be able to hear it.

If any part of this is aimed at any goal besides that one, I'm not interested.
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