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Old 8th June 2017, 09:14 AM   #1
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Default Denafrips discrete R2R Multibit

I'm a sucker for good R2R Multibit dacs. And this is very cool looking under it's skirt. It just has to sound ?????????
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/de...2r-dac.851085/

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Last edited by georgehifi; 8th June 2017 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 9th June 2017, 09:39 AM   #2
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I think it's cool. My DAC is also R2R multibit. But my choice is not hybrid one .I prefer monolithic. Famous multibit PCM1704 is already obsolete. But industorial DACs ,for example LTC2642 etc, are availeble.

I think you can get good result with monolithic ICs.
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Old 10th June 2017, 03:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgehifi View Post
I'm a sucker for good R2R Multibit dacs. And this is very cool looking under it's skirt. It just has to sound ?????????
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/de...2r-dac.851085/

Cheers George
I can confirm the Ares is a very good sounding R2R, and I have the Soekris 1021 V3. IMO, the Ares sound better. I might start a thread on the modding the Ares when I have the time to mod it (not much to tweak really as the power supply is pretty good, but maybe few extra caps here and there)

Last edited by ChuckT; 10th June 2017 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 11th June 2017, 12:29 AM   #4
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I'd just opt for the forthcoming Soekris 1541 if I didn't already have the tubed AD1865.
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Old 11th June 2017, 12:53 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by thuanth43 View Post
I'd just opt for the forthcoming Soekris 1541 if I didn't already have the tubed AD1865.
And pay twice the price so you can wait a year for modders to improve on it? Lol.
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Old 11th June 2017, 01:02 AM   #6
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Your opinion then I wouldn't care much.
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Old 11th June 2017, 03:09 AM   #7
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And pay twice the price so you can wait a year for modders to improve on it? Lol.
Funny. But sadly a bit true. I did post to Seokris asking not to use a noisy 1117 for 3.3.v for both the clock and the fpga. The Ares at least uses pre-regulation and 5 lt1763 after for the digital section and 3 more for the resistor network.

And the new 1541? People pay extra for the linear supplies for digital, the Ares uses an O core tranny and a huge capacitor bank.
The Soekris 1541 has 3 Meanwell SMPS module
I hope those Meanwell are super low noise as switcher noise are really difficult to get rid of.
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Old 11th June 2017, 08:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post
Funny. But sadly a bit true. I did post to Seokris asking not to use a noisy 1117 for 3.3.v for both the clock and the fpga. The Ares at least uses pre-regulation and 5 lt1763 after for the digital section and 3 more for the resistor network.

And the new 1541? People pay extra for the linear supplies for digital, the Ares uses an O core tranny and a huge capacitor bank.
The Soekris 1541 has 3 Meanwell SMPS module
I hope those Meanwell are super low noise as switcher noise are really difficult to get rid of.
First, the Si514 and Si570 clocks have internal regulators, see Silicon Labs AN255 for performance details (The described Si550 use same architecture), so their power supplies are not that critical....

And it's actually easier to filter a little high frequency noise that the huge 50/60 hz magnetic field from a transformer, I have no problems with it at all.

dac1541: High reliability high efficiency switch mode supplies, following by LC filters, following by high speed, ultra low noise, ultra low impedance discrete regulators, a total of six of them. Digital clocks powered by LP5907's.

Most others: Transformers with large magnetic fields, followed by inefficient linear regulators using standard chips, with a shitload of unreliable electrolytic capacitors trying to fix things....

So which one is the smart way of designing and will work like new after ten years of service ?

And btw, you do know that the Ares do not have a reclocking fifo, so the 50 pS jitter from the AK4118 spdif receiver goes right though the DAC ?
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Old 12th June 2017, 12:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soekris View Post
And it's actually easier to filter a little high frequency noise that the huge 50/60 hz magnetic field from a transformer, I have no problems with it at all.
Filtering out normal-mode noise is fairly easy, enough chokes and ceramic caps ('lytics for damping too) and you're done. Presumably that's what you're referring to. Common-mode noise on the other hand....

Quote:
Most others: Transformers with large magnetic fields, followed by inefficient linear regulators using standard chips, with a shitload of unreliable electrolytic capacitors trying to fix things....
The Denafrips does have a most impressive capacitor array. I wonder what circuit aspect is so sensitive to PSU noise that they need that many?

Quote:
So which one is the smart way of designing and will work like new after ten years of service ?
SMPSUs have unreliable electrolytics inside too, probably running at much higher internal temps than the array visible in the Denafrips.
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Old 12th June 2017, 12:28 AM   #10
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How many pS jitter is giving 1" length trace on a pcb ? Clock seems not so close ? Or is it the photograph scale ?
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