It's a 'possible' answer to the OP's original query. We have zero data indicating his subjective evaluation was a result of this phenomenon. If his source material was encoded at appropriate levels below 0dbFS and/or he had some digital attenuation at work, then your entire discussion is irrelevant to this particular evaluation.
Dave.
Checked my nanodigi today
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidspkits/nanodigi-2x8-k
Played the +0.67dB signal from PC to nanidigi at 44.1 SR
Attunated the signal -6dB at the output of nanodigi.
Went through a tc electronics DAC and measured analog with REW at an other PC.
About 1 % distortion at 0 dB
0.002 distortion (analog) at -1 dB
See pictures. The weakest link for some MINIDSP products are ASRC for+0dBFS signals.
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidspkits/nanodigi-2x8-k
Played the +0.67dB signal from PC to nanidigi at 44.1 SR
Attunated the signal -6dB at the output of nanodigi.
Went through a tc electronics DAC and measured analog with REW at an other PC.
About 1 % distortion at 0 dB
0.002 distortion (analog) at -1 dB
See pictures. The weakest link for some MINIDSP products are ASRC for+0dBFS signals.
Attachments
+0.67dB relative to... full scale? (Don't follow... are you already clipping at the PC output?)
Tried also to attunate at the input of the nanodigi, but no effect.
Think I can live with 1% distortion in these situations.
I love the MINIDSP products and the revolution they have fueled regarding DSP for everyone.
The original minidsp 2x4 i have used in a everyday basis for several years.
Think I can live with 1% distortion in these situations.
I love the MINIDSP products and the revolution they have fueled regarding DSP for everyone.
The original minidsp 2x4 i have used in a everyday basis for several years.
Used the first file of #1 in
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...re-detect-0dbfs-waveforms-overload-times.html.
ASIO out to babyface spdif to nanodigi.
Very interested if anyone could provide a solution for clean ASRC of +0dBFS signals on nanodigi.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...re-detect-0dbfs-waveforms-overload-times.html.
ASIO out to babyface spdif to nanodigi.
Very interested if anyone could provide a solution for clean ASRC of +0dBFS signals on nanodigi.
John,
Obviously there are no data samples greater than 0dbFS, but he's worst-casing here by feeding the input with data that has successive samples ("clipping") at 0dbFS.
This is an attempt to trip up the operation of the ASRC. He's making the case that all digital inputs should be attenuated by a few db to prevent this from happening.
Dave.
Yes, if you oversample and hit peak value, you will se +0.67 dB.
Some DACs can handle it others will distort in an ugly way as the tc. elecronics AES article shows.
Try the bata pyMasVis:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...s-waveforms-overload-times-3.html#post4689335
On your favourite post year 2005 loud rock/pop tracks.
Some DACs can handle it others will distort in an ugly way as the tc. elecronics AES article shows.
Try the bata pyMasVis:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...s-waveforms-overload-times-3.html#post4689335
On your favourite post year 2005 loud rock/pop tracks.
Last edited:
Well I'm convinced my minidsp version isn't quite up to it..... Took the dsp out of the system and set up a very simple passive crossover, suddenly the sound stage opened up and went from being contained between the horns to out past them. This is exactly what I found when I tried this swap on my DTQWT speaker.
Now how do we improve this, maybe the minidsp that works purely in the digital domain?
Or.... can anyone comment on the freedsp project?
Other options??
Cheers
Now how do we improve this, maybe the minidsp that works purely in the digital domain?
Or.... can anyone comment on the freedsp project?
Other options??
Cheers
During all my time playing with the minidsp I've never been happy with the sound stage presentation. I've had it sounding pretty good but it's always missed something. As mentioned twice now I've taken it out of the system and things have improved. First trial was with my passive speakers which sound very good, nice broad sound stage and the speaker's disappear in the room. I replaced my DAC for the minidsp with a straight through setup, no filters or crossover and straight away the sound stage reduced to narrow between the speakers. This shows me the minidsp DAC just isn't as good as my original DAC. This was the same when I replaced the minidsp for a basic passive crossover in my horn setup.
Don't really need measurements to tell me it's not as good!
Just need to find something better, that's why I was looking at some of the other minidsp models...
Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
Don't really need measurements to tell me it's not as good!
Just need to find something better, that's why I was looking at some of the other minidsp models...
Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
I am not doubting your subjective experience, but getting the miniDSP setup to exactly match the passive crossover takes some work and probably measurement.
Your sound stage issues are odd in the extreme as a collapsing sound stage usually means you have a summing to mono somewhere. Certainly with passive crossovers you can get phase shifts you don't have with active which could give an artificially expanded sound stage.
Most miniDSP products allow you to get at the I2S signals and put your own DAC on. You may need to lift the lid though*. But, providing its been setup correctly there are no major anomalies in the miniDSP measured output, so it would be really beneficial if we could get to the bottom of your problems.
*confirmed the 2x4 does have I2S headers.
Your sound stage issues are odd in the extreme as a collapsing sound stage usually means you have a summing to mono somewhere. Certainly with passive crossovers you can get phase shifts you don't have with active which could give an artificially expanded sound stage.
Most miniDSP products allow you to get at the I2S signals and put your own DAC on. You may need to lift the lid though*. But, providing its been setup correctly there are no major anomalies in the miniDSP measured output, so it would be really beneficial if we could get to the bottom of your problems.
*confirmed the 2x4 does have I2S headers.
No, the phase shifts will be identical if the amplitude curves are the same. However, active/passive matching of this sort seems to be well beyond the understanding/capabilities of the OP.
I suggest he just move on since I'm 99% sure he won't find what he's looking for with the miniDSP products.
Dave.
"but getting the miniDSP setup to exactly match the passive crossover takes some work and probably measurement."
We shouldn't have to do any setup, its a straight through configuration so we should only hear the insertion component (or loss).
Thanks for this comment,
"However, active/passive matching of this sort seems to be well beyond the understanding/capabilities of the OP"
This is just an example of how far some people have their heads up there own as**.
A hell of a lot of info on these sort of questions tell us to trust our ears, I know what I hear and know that a straight through configuration should change anything if it is in fact straight through. Measurements would be the same, but it can sound different. We all know amps with the same FR sound different.
Thanks for your comments.
We shouldn't have to do any setup, its a straight through configuration so we should only hear the insertion component (or loss).
Thanks for this comment,
"However, active/passive matching of this sort seems to be well beyond the understanding/capabilities of the OP"
This is just an example of how far some people have their heads up there own as**.
A hell of a lot of info on these sort of questions tell us to trust our ears, I know what I hear and know that a straight through configuration should change anything if it is in fact straight through. Measurements would be the same, but it can sound different. We all know amps with the same FR sound different.
Thanks for your comments.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.