Here are a few of my PI2 modifications:
* I'm turning off HDMI since day one.I'm in line with scramer with that one.
* I'm also modestly overclocking the device.
* Beside that I'm using the "performance" governor. (or even turn power management completely off in the kernel)
* Don't use those cheap heatsinks with even cheaper adhesive foil. These foils are crap.
Either you go without heatsink or u better use Arctic Silver thermal adhesives.
* Applying some extra nearby low ESR capacitance on each power rail (1,8-3,3-5V) should stabilize the PIs operation. Especially when having quite some capacitance bolted to the piggyback DACs and overclocking in place this mod should be considered.
* I don't use the uUSB port for powering the PI. I just use it for testing purposes only.
* Obviously PI powered peripherals (WLAN,USB disks, etc) should be avoided.
* USB cables lead all kind of mess into the PI, better avoid them.
* Use ethernet cables without shield or just cut the shield. Otherwise these lead even more mess into the
PI then the USB cable.
@Soundcheck,
Many thanks for these!
I had a some of these already setup (powering the Pi via the expansion header from the DAC cards or I2S adapters, never the micro-USB, nothing else plugged into the Pi) and found Sckramer's comments on shutting off the HDMI in the DIYAudio PiCorePlayer thread.
Then I can easily try overclocking the next time I sit and listen to them.
Got any good resources I should look at for the best locations to add caps to the 1.8v/3.3v/5v rails. I already have more on the 5v on each setup. On the HiFiBerry & Mamboberry DACs, I can easily add caps to the 3.3v on the expansion header, but I suspect that's not the best location. Still, it's easy & I'll probably do that before I do my next listening session on them. But the 1.8v is not brought out there.
Ditto on resources on the power management shutoff.
If no, I'll go google-crazy & dig them up.
I did get the MamboBerry DAC in and have both it and the HFBD+P in my upstairs setup powered, running, and burning in. I'll probably do a quick listen this afternoon, but then give them more time to burn-in this week.
I did setup the MamboBerry to use one of my DC rails, bypassing the rectifiers, and also setup a feed for the Pi 5v on the header (along with a cap there), which is easy to use by just removing the header jumper.
First impressions of the MamboBerry while poking around on it are pretty positive, but of course it is not synchronously clocked. The power supplies are a good cut above the HFB stuff, IMHO. OTOH, the output jacks set a new standard in flimsiness, not too impressed with them!
Again, THANKS!
Greg in Mississippi
@clivem
I've been playing around with the rt-patch on PI kernel 4.4.2.
Unfortunately the 4.4.2-rt7 rt-patch fails on current 4.4.3.
Do you know if there's a way to download the 4.4.2 sources??
Thx.
####
Just to mention it. Running the "Full-Preemption" kernel and lifting up the
squeezelite priorities (lower then 50!) seems to give a slight
advantage over non-rt on my MamboBerry testsystem.
I've been playing around with the rt-patch on PI kernel 4.4.2.
Unfortunately the 4.4.2-rt7 rt-patch fails on current 4.4.3.
Do you know if there's a way to download the 4.4.2 sources??
Thx.
####
Just to mention it. Running the "Full-Preemption" kernel and lifting up the
squeezelite priorities (lower then 50!) seems to give a slight
advantage over non-rt on my MamboBerry testsystem.
I will check tonight or tomorrow night.
After running them about 30 hours starting Saturday afternoon, I listened to them for a bit last night. Nothing surprising... the HFBD+P sounded a touch better than the last listen, which might indicate extended running-in is needed. The MamboBerry was at about the same level, a bit more 'musical' than the HFBD+P, with a sound that reminded me of the ES9022-based EUVL DAC card I used on my PC-based cMP player for the last several years... that 'ESS Async' sound, not bad, but not the best either. At this point I have a very slight preference for the MamboBerry, but not by much.
This was all with a stock PiCorePlayer setup with almost no tweaking, sorry, I haven't had time for that. I DID notice that while the HFBD+P did sound better with the Pi plugged into the same outlet as the PS Audio P10 that is powering the DAC card and the amps, the MamboBerry seemed better with the Pi into the 'dirty' outlets along with the Zotac LMS server, the Ethernet switch, and the WiFi Router, which are all on another AC circuit on that subpanel.
The HFBD+P was powered as before, one linear supply feeding 5v to the DAC analog side, another feeding 3.3v to the DAC digital side and clocks, and a third at 5v feeding the Pi via the expansion header. All of these suppliers were regulated.
The MamboBerry was fed with just two supplies, one raw and non-regulated 6.5v DC into the main power feed (bypassing the diode bridge where most will feed 6v AC, but going into a very good 5v regulator on the MamboBerry) and a 2nd regulated 5v into the Pi.
That they both were close in sound quality with some tradeoffs confirmed that this direction has limits in where we can get without a more sophisticated design (Like doing a hardware-generated bitclock to feed into the Pi with an appropriate driver, upsampling to 352/384 to bypass the on-chip filters, GMR isolator chips with local reclocking, and a power supply setup more like that of the MamboBerry or Durio DACs).
After my listening last week, I was concerned that all of my mods to the HFBD+P were a mistake (always need to keep that in mind). Now I just think they need more time to settle in.
So I am planning to give them that run-in time (this week at least) AND start trying some of the SW/setup tweaks listed here. Again, because these cards are so coupled to the Pi, I expect the tweaks could make significant differences.
OTOH, I losing hope that anything can bring either of these up to the level of my middle tier of digital sources, much less the top tier.
Greg in Mississippi
I'd confirm that slight musicality advantage associated to the Mambo.
I'd also agree that these (my tweaked HifiBerry and my Stock Mambo) are not night and day apart. No reason for me to order the current Mambo.
IMO the 5122 DSP side I consider a real weak spot. Not sure if the 9023 is doing any better.
The new Dragonfly RED comes with a 9016 Sabre instead of the 9023 from the DF 1.2.
probably there's a good reason for that.
Anyhow.
Perhaps it's time to try a Soekris DAC attached to the HBD+P.
I'd also agree that these (my tweaked HifiBerry and my Stock Mambo) are not night and day apart. No reason for me to order the current Mambo.
IMO the 5122 DSP side I consider a real weak spot. Not sure if the 9023 is doing any better.
The new Dragonfly RED comes with a 9016 Sabre instead of the 9023 from the DF 1.2.
probably there's a good reason for that.
Anyhow.
Perhaps it's time to try a Soekris DAC attached to the HBD+P.
P.S. I should say that one of the other setups I'm working on right now is using an Ian FIFO with good clocks and his isolator board to be initially fed from another Pi, similar to my R-Pi -> Soekris DAM DAC setup that is currently one of my best. Initially I'll be trying a Twisted Pear Buffalo II I've had around for awhile, with the intention to run it at first with the stock async mode, then configure it to run synchronous so I can hear the sonic diffs.
I'm hopeful this will be a LOT closer to the DAM DACs than these Pi-DACs. If so, I'll take an ES9022/9023 DAC like the MamboBerry (I have several possible candidates here) and run it from this source, to both confirm that it is the direct connection with the Pi without isolation and reclocking that gives the current SQ, and with the intention of understanding how much reclocking, isolation, really good clocks, and synchronous DAC operation affect SQ.
Greg in Mississippi
I'm hopeful this will be a LOT closer to the DAM DACs than these Pi-DACs. If so, I'll take an ES9022/9023 DAC like the MamboBerry (I have several possible candidates here) and run it from this source, to both confirm that it is the direct connection with the Pi without isolation and reclocking that gives the current SQ, and with the intention of understanding how much reclocking, isolation, really good clocks, and synchronous DAC operation affect SQ.
Greg in Mississippi
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@Soundcheck,
I think you'd like a Soekris a lot. I don't think you need the HFBD+P either, but I will try that at some point.
Mine is an original, stock, with updated firmware and filters. Though the recommended basic supply is to feed it from an AC transformer and it is powered by the onboard diode bridge and caps, I have a +- supply with high-test rectifiers and 2 Jensen 47,000uf 4-pole filter caps on it... that supply by itself cost more than 2/3 of the DAM DAC card. But I am blown away by the sound and attribute much of it to that supply. I suspect just hooking a transformer up to the stock AC input points on the DAM would not sound nearly as good, but at this point I am not even inclined to check.
I have plans to modify the DAM with better regs and separate supplies for the 1.2v, 3.3v, +-5v & the output stages (+-12v to 15v). But it is so good right now that I am more interested in trying some of the other planned experiments I have in work, like these cards and the FIFO-input setup (and also a synchronously-clocked setup using the BBB as a source and Acko's S03).
I'm trying to find out what is important in getting the best sound out of digital... so far async reclocking (as opposed to ASRC like how the ESS DACs as normally implemented) and isolation are winning, along with R2R instead of Sigma Delta DACs.
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. I think I've mentioned this before, but the HFBD+P and the MamboBerry are both powered by similar supplies... I really don't think it is the power supplies that are holding both back. That's why I AM keen to try your SW & setup tweaks... I think these will respond a lot like my motherboard->Juli@->I2S DAC card setup where there was no isolation or reclocking and tweaks to the power, OS & SW made very significant diffs in the SQ (ultimately I was running a super-tweaked 15Mb WinXP load with a fully-linear ATX supply!).
I think you'd like a Soekris a lot. I don't think you need the HFBD+P either, but I will try that at some point.
Mine is an original, stock, with updated firmware and filters. Though the recommended basic supply is to feed it from an AC transformer and it is powered by the onboard diode bridge and caps, I have a +- supply with high-test rectifiers and 2 Jensen 47,000uf 4-pole filter caps on it... that supply by itself cost more than 2/3 of the DAM DAC card. But I am blown away by the sound and attribute much of it to that supply. I suspect just hooking a transformer up to the stock AC input points on the DAM would not sound nearly as good, but at this point I am not even inclined to check.
I have plans to modify the DAM with better regs and separate supplies for the 1.2v, 3.3v, +-5v & the output stages (+-12v to 15v). But it is so good right now that I am more interested in trying some of the other planned experiments I have in work, like these cards and the FIFO-input setup (and also a synchronously-clocked setup using the BBB as a source and Acko's S03).
I'm trying to find out what is important in getting the best sound out of digital... so far async reclocking (as opposed to ASRC like how the ESS DACs as normally implemented) and isolation are winning, along with R2R instead of Sigma Delta DACs.
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. I think I've mentioned this before, but the HFBD+P and the MamboBerry are both powered by similar supplies... I really don't think it is the power supplies that are holding both back. That's why I AM keen to try your SW & setup tweaks... I think these will respond a lot like my motherboard->Juli@->I2S DAC card setup where there was no isolation or reclocking and tweaks to the power, OS & SW made very significant diffs in the SQ (ultimately I was running a super-tweaked 15Mb WinXP load with a fully-linear ATX supply!).
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Been through all rpi distros many times. It all came down to 2.
Picoreplayer for gui, functionality (takes some time to get used to)
Archphile for simplicity, sound quality etc.
Using rpi2 - i2s - soekris dac
Using the latest archphile distro now. I think it also offer some squeezelite options (extra packages must be installed)
Picoreplayer for gui, functionality (takes some time to get used to)
Archphile for simplicity, sound quality etc.
Using rpi2 - i2s - soekris dac
Using the latest archphile distro now. I think it also offer some squeezelite options (extra packages must be installed)
Looks pretty "cool".
Seems like the raspberry pi 3 can really use a heatsink:
https://imgur.com/a/tzgPU
Why? Really not a fan of the volumio/moode style-- did you notice moode does not handle the volume correctly at all with the Dac+?
Did you see the overclock menu (has other options) not sure why you'd ever want to overclock?
I have LMS convert every format to PCM, so the pi never transcodes, the cpu is practically idle while playing music, plus with the huge buffer there's just a 4 second burst of network, then there's 0 network streaming--
Also the ZERO is perfect for this, every other pi has something unneeded, like ethernet, camera, analog audio, etc...
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1. Not any optimization applied ( Or better: I couldn't find any)
2. Tiny/MicroCore Linux is as inflexible and complex as a Linux can get. That small size comes at a price and is not at all required.
3. Usually you won't find the most up2date SW. If you find certain SW at all.
4. Tweaking that OS is PITA
For those who're looking for a quick squeeze solution. Go for it.
Those who look for optimized SW that translates into better sound, look for a different solution. You might want to talk to Tim Curtis. Perhaps he's willing to provide a squeezelite option for Moode. Should be a No-Brainer for him.
moode PCM5122 filters
Did you guys see this in the newest moode?
I've not bothered to play with it because the volume is so screwed up using the Dac+ Pro, can't verify it's set to 0db, and out of the box it's set to a millionDB & is all distorted
Did you guys see this in the newest moode?
I've not bothered to play with it because the volume is so screwed up using the Dac+ Pro, can't verify it's set to 0db, and out of the box it's set to a millionDB & is all distorted
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@sckramer,
Very neat on the Moode thing with the filter options. Those are the four different filters built into the DAC chip. While they won't provide the nirvana possible with custom-tuned 352/384 upsampling filters that bypass these four, they will provide some ability for users to tune the sound a bit.... of course after the volume is working well in Moode.
And I'll have to look at the Zero... I'm all for less extraneous HW on the board!
@Soundcheck, first, I put both the MamboBerry and HFBD+P back into the system tonight after a few more days of burn-in. Both are improved, especially on vocals, conveying some sense of space, and portraying different instrument tones and colors, with the HFBD+P now surpassing the MamboBerry by a tiny bit, based on my VERY quick listening session (and it should be, based what I did to the power supplies on it! That was a severe disappointment before).
Both are now at the point where I want to continue listening to them instead of going to the next source, a good milestone. Also, I need to compare both to the modified DVD player... on this quick listen, they may have closed the gap somewhat.
This was likely aided by my adding some noise-filtering clamp-on chokes on all of the 'dirty' power cords and umbilicals in this still pretty new LMS server setup a couple of evenings ago. I've never found these to be positives on any of my core audio gear, but always good on anything else that might be generating noise on the AC lines. This included the ethernet cables. I have these on almost everything else running on AC in the house, even down to the microwave and the garage-door opener.
Also, I turned both up while on pause. No noise at the speakers at all, actually quieter than the modified DVD player as it has a very tiny bit of hum I haven't spent time chasing.
And @Bambadoo, the MamboBerry people also said to try Archphile as the best they'd heard for the Pi and their DAC.
Back to some listening!
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. @Soundcheck, now to start looking at alternative distros and your suggested optimizations.
Very neat on the Moode thing with the filter options. Those are the four different filters built into the DAC chip. While they won't provide the nirvana possible with custom-tuned 352/384 upsampling filters that bypass these four, they will provide some ability for users to tune the sound a bit.... of course after the volume is working well in Moode.
And I'll have to look at the Zero... I'm all for less extraneous HW on the board!
@Soundcheck, first, I put both the MamboBerry and HFBD+P back into the system tonight after a few more days of burn-in. Both are improved, especially on vocals, conveying some sense of space, and portraying different instrument tones and colors, with the HFBD+P now surpassing the MamboBerry by a tiny bit, based on my VERY quick listening session (and it should be, based what I did to the power supplies on it! That was a severe disappointment before).
Both are now at the point where I want to continue listening to them instead of going to the next source, a good milestone. Also, I need to compare both to the modified DVD player... on this quick listen, they may have closed the gap somewhat.
This was likely aided by my adding some noise-filtering clamp-on chokes on all of the 'dirty' power cords and umbilicals in this still pretty new LMS server setup a couple of evenings ago. I've never found these to be positives on any of my core audio gear, but always good on anything else that might be generating noise on the AC lines. This included the ethernet cables. I have these on almost everything else running on AC in the house, even down to the microwave and the garage-door opener.
Also, I turned both up while on pause. No noise at the speakers at all, actually quieter than the modified DVD player as it has a very tiny bit of hum I haven't spent time chasing.
And @Bambadoo, the MamboBerry people also said to try Archphile as the best they'd heard for the Pi and their DAC.
Back to some listening!
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. @Soundcheck, now to start looking at alternative distros and your suggested optimizations.
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