Folks:
I recently completed a music server project (with critical help from vdi_nenna) for my main system and would like to extend the server's reach to other stereos in the house. My plan is to get a Raspberry Pi (2, A+ or B+), pop Volumino onto an SD card and plug the Pi into a USB DAC. Does anyone have any advice concerning inexpensive USB DACs? I'm budgeting $150 (US), which means the Schiit Modi 2 Uber is in the running. But what about a Chinese DAC off ebay, such as:
Nobsound HiFi Pure USB Decoder Xmos U8 AK4399 DAC I2S Perfect Support 192K 32bit | eBay
or
SMSL Sanskrit ?SK?DAC USB 96K Coaxial Optical 24bit 192kHz SD 1955 Upgrade B | eBay
I'm not looking for a kit and this won't be connected to a reference-level system. I'm simply looking for the best-sounding USB DAC in my price range.
Any advice?
Regards,
Scott
I recently completed a music server project (with critical help from vdi_nenna) for my main system and would like to extend the server's reach to other stereos in the house. My plan is to get a Raspberry Pi (2, A+ or B+), pop Volumino onto an SD card and plug the Pi into a USB DAC. Does anyone have any advice concerning inexpensive USB DACs? I'm budgeting $150 (US), which means the Schiit Modi 2 Uber is in the running. But what about a Chinese DAC off ebay, such as:
Nobsound HiFi Pure USB Decoder Xmos U8 AK4399 DAC I2S Perfect Support 192K 32bit | eBay
or
SMSL Sanskrit ?SK?DAC USB 96K Coaxial Optical 24bit 192kHz SD 1955 Upgrade B | eBay
I'm not looking for a kit and this won't be connected to a reference-level system. I'm simply looking for the best-sounding USB DAC in my price range.
Any advice?
Regards,
Scott
I have seen many posts about people who cannot get their XMOS DAC to work under Linux...
On the other hand, I have seen posts that indicate that DACs using the TE7022 USB receiver work well under Linux. Like this:
Hifimediy Sabre USB DAC ES9023 TE7022 96kHz 24bit 96 24 USB to Optical | eBay
You also need to keep in mind that the R-Pi, even the "2", is a very, very low power computer and may not be up to the necessary throughput for 32/192 in a variety of ways. I believe that 24/96 will work fine, however, so you might aim for that spec when looking for a DAC.
On the other hand, I have seen posts that indicate that DACs using the TE7022 USB receiver work well under Linux. Like this:
Hifimediy Sabre USB DAC ES9023 TE7022 96kHz 24bit 96 24 USB to Optical | eBay
You also need to keep in mind that the R-Pi, even the "2", is a very, very low power computer and may not be up to the necessary throughput for 32/192 in a variety of ways. I believe that 24/96 will work fine, however, so you might aim for that spec when looking for a DAC.
Eight Parallel 8x TDA1387 HiFi DAC HiFi Decoder USB Digital Input Like TDA1541 | eBay
You need to add on the $10 USB input card and also note that the default is 220V mains.
You need to add on the $10 USB input card and also note that the default is 220V mains.
CharlieLaub and abraxalito:
Thanks for the helpful responses! There's also the JDS ODAC to consider, though at $169 it admittedly busts my self-imposed budget. Other than the issues posed by XMOS DACs, should I really expect notable sonic differences amongst the options available in the sub-$150 (or sub-$169) price range? In other words, what might my agonizing really get me?
Regards,
Scott
Thanks for the helpful responses! There's also the JDS ODAC to consider, though at $169 it admittedly busts my self-imposed budget. Other than the issues posed by XMOS DACs, should I really expect notable sonic differences amongst the options available in the sub-$150 (or sub-$169) price range? In other words, what might my agonizing really get me?
Regards,
Scott
I'd suggest that sonic differences between DACs will depend to a large extent on what you're using for amplification. Your typical eBay chipamp implementation (just as one fairly common example) may well not reveal them. With optimized amps though the HF in particular of the TDA1387 (after a few judicious mods documented on Matt's wiki here: TDA1387 X8 NOS DAC - diyAudio) will shine through as clearer than almost any S-D type implementation.
abraxalito:
Ouch! You've hit me where it hurts -- I represented this as a "non-reference-level" application but the truth is it's not a bad-sounding stereo, consisting of an Aikido preamplifier, AES SuperAmp Signature, Meadowlark Kestral (Hot Rod) loudspeakers and a Jolida JD-100 CD player and JD-402 tuner. Not world class but quite nice sounding. And it makes sense that whatever I use to access the music server be comparable in quality.
Your recommendation?
Regards,
Scott
Ouch! You've hit me where it hurts -- I represented this as a "non-reference-level" application but the truth is it's not a bad-sounding stereo, consisting of an Aikido preamplifier, AES SuperAmp Signature, Meadowlark Kestral (Hot Rod) loudspeakers and a Jolida JD-100 CD player and JD-402 tuner. Not world class but quite nice sounding. And it makes sense that whatever I use to access the music server be comparable in quality.
Your recommendation?
Regards,
Scott
Scott -
I was thinking that because I happened to mention chipamps your 'it hurts' comment was you revealing that's what you were using. I had to search for your components but it seems its all decent tube stuff (not that I know anything much about tubes). In which case in my view you definitely will benefit from the TDA1387-based DAC over the more common S-D ones as its tonal colours are more life-like and won't be obscured by the rest of your system.
I was thinking that because I happened to mention chipamps your 'it hurts' comment was you revealing that's what you were using. I had to search for your components but it seems its all decent tube stuff (not that I know anything much about tubes). In which case in my view you definitely will benefit from the TDA1387-based DAC over the more common S-D ones as its tonal colours are more life-like and won't be obscured by the rest of your system.
abraxalito:
No, I was really trying to convey an insecurity about the quality of the DAC I was considering buying; the goal is to get something of decent quality, consistent with the rest of that system. I have a relatively tight budget for this project but didn't want to underspend on a critical component.
You've convinced me (the blog really helped) to get the 8x TDA1387 DAC and try my hand at some of the very impressive improvements you've wrought. Lacking any experience in this area, I'll limit myself to tackling your simpler mods. One last question (at least at this stage): you had recommended I get the $10 USB upgrade (44.1k & 48k/16 bit "CM108 USB Card"), but my Daphile-based music server is capable of much higher resolution. Is there a reason not to get the $35 USB upgrade (up to 192k/24 bit "CM6631 USB Card") instead?
Many thanks,
Scott
No, I was really trying to convey an insecurity about the quality of the DAC I was considering buying; the goal is to get something of decent quality, consistent with the rest of that system. I have a relatively tight budget for this project but didn't want to underspend on a critical component.
You've convinced me (the blog really helped) to get the 8x TDA1387 DAC and try my hand at some of the very impressive improvements you've wrought. Lacking any experience in this area, I'll limit myself to tackling your simpler mods. One last question (at least at this stage): you had recommended I get the $10 USB upgrade (44.1k & 48k/16 bit "CM108 USB Card"), but my Daphile-based music server is capable of much higher resolution. Is there a reason not to get the $35 USB upgrade (up to 192k/24 bit "CM6631 USB Card") instead?
Many thanks,
Scott
The DAC chips themselves are only 16bit parts so any bits beyond that will be simply thrown away. As for higher sample rates - the DAC handles them but depending on which mods you decide for the frequency response won't be perfectly flat at at least one of the rates. However this is really a fairly minor issue as the deviation is only a couple of dB at the HF end.
P.S. thanks for the positive feedback about my blog
P.S. thanks for the positive feedback about my blog
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abraxalito:
I don't want to mince words -- your blog is revelatory and to the extent I don't try my hand at any of the mods you have proposed, it's only because I may not be deft enough to pull it off without making a dumb mistake. The mods are all nicely described and detailed.
Much appreciated,
Scott
I don't want to mince words -- your blog is revelatory and to the extent I don't try my hand at any of the mods you have proposed, it's only because I may not be deft enough to pull it off without making a dumb mistake. The mods are all nicely described and detailed.
Much appreciated,
Scott
FYI, there's also a tda1387 x4 DAC available on ebay, $39 USD, seller doukmall. Here's a link that's working at the moment.
It's USB-only, and also powered by USB. Truly plug'n'play. Some of the mods for the 8x also apply to the 4x, e.g. adding more capacitance to tda1387 pins 7 and 5.
I think the potential for the 8x is much greater, but the 4x can give you a taste at a lower cost. I bought a couple of 4x DACs, did a light mod on one, see post #137 on page 14 in the tda1387x8 thread. I only gave the 4x a quick listen to make sure it worked, but it was pleasing enough.
Maybe call the 4x the "appetizer" and the 8x the "dinner entree".
I have a very similar version of that DAC, mine is the Asynchronous one, bought direct from HiFiMeDIY a couple years ago. I never used this in a critical sense, but I'm using it for the whole-house sound system. The system is a BeagleBone Black running Volumio, i.e. Linux. I don't recall having to jump through any hoops to get it to work. The whole-house system favors low-cost/reliable/simple over sound quality. That said, I might just change the HiFiMeDIY Sabre 9023 DAC over to the tda1387 x4...
It's USB-only, and also powered by USB. Truly plug'n'play. Some of the mods for the 8x also apply to the 4x, e.g. adding more capacitance to tda1387 pins 7 and 5.
I think the potential for the 8x is much greater, but the 4x can give you a taste at a lower cost. I bought a couple of 4x DACs, did a light mod on one, see post #137 on page 14 in the tda1387x8 thread. I only gave the 4x a quick listen to make sure it worked, but it was pleasing enough.
Maybe call the 4x the "appetizer" and the 8x the "dinner entree".
I have a very similar version of that DAC, mine is the Asynchronous one, bought direct from HiFiMeDIY a couple years ago. I never used this in a critical sense, but I'm using it for the whole-house sound system. The system is a BeagleBone Black running Volumio, i.e. Linux. I don't recall having to jump through any hoops to get it to work. The whole-house system favors low-cost/reliable/simple over sound quality. That said, I might just change the HiFiMeDIY Sabre 9023 DAC over to the tda1387 x4...
Matt:
I appreciate the suggestion but I wouldn't be satisfied with just an appetizer and am prepared to buy the full dinner. The cost difference isn't that big (about $110, including shipping and the CM108 USB Card) and the prospect of trailing behind the work that abraxalito and you did on your 8x TDA1387 DACs is pretty exciting. So if it turns out the 4x version is just as good, please don't tell me.
Thanks and congratulations on some really impressive work,
Scott
I appreciate the suggestion but I wouldn't be satisfied with just an appetizer and am prepared to buy the full dinner. The cost difference isn't that big (about $110, including shipping and the CM108 USB Card) and the prospect of trailing behind the work that abraxalito and you did on your 8x TDA1387 DACs is pretty exciting. So if it turns out the 4x version is just as good, please don't tell me.
Thanks and congratulations on some really impressive work,
Scott
Schopenhauer says...
The CM108AH USB decoder is not ideal for high-quality audio (that link has better offerings). CMedia offers better alternatives, as does Tenor, Savitech, XMOS and TI. You can even get the old TI270x to work fine if configured carefully.
I'd recommend the Modi 2 Uber (I'm a bit biased though). I have the non-Uber, with USB only. Great little DAC and hey, it's made in the U.S..
Any other comments on the Modi 2? Ever consider a power modi like this? Thanks!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/241786-modding-modi-oh-schiit-2.html#post4575038
Not that, but I have thought about getting the Schiit Wyrd decrapifier ($99). I have not encounted any lack of bass with the Modi.
http://schiit.com/products/wyrd
So what DAC did you end up getting? I'm interested in the Schiit Modi 2 Uber, because it uses a 16V ac wall wart, so it has it's own dc supply inside on the pcb and I bet they isolate it pretty well in the case/board. I love that the Modi 2 Uber also has optical and coax spdif inputs as well. I use spdif right now. Like having the options.. maybe USB will sound better?
Folks:
For whatever little it's worth, I ended up with the 8x TDA1387 DAC that abraxalito and Matt Garman recommended. I completed the five simplest modifications they recommended and am thrilled with the outcome; initially, the DAC was recessed, thin and not very musical. The mods opened up the sound and the soundstage enormously; the resulting DAC sounds vastly better and is an excellent solution for me. I cannot compare it to the Schiit Modi 2 Uber, but the 8x TDA1387 DAC fairs well in comparison to the Schiit Bifrost Uber in my main system. Yes, the Bifrost is better, but that's hardly surprising -- the Bifrost cost 3 times what the modified TDA1387 DAC cost me.
The TDA1387 DAC is still available (not on ebay but from a few other sites noted by abraxalito in his wiki). Modifying the DAC was inexpensive, easy (aside from a problem clearing some of the vias) and took me a just few hours.
You certainly have options, but this one comes highly recommended.
Regards,
Scott
For whatever little it's worth, I ended up with the 8x TDA1387 DAC that abraxalito and Matt Garman recommended. I completed the five simplest modifications they recommended and am thrilled with the outcome; initially, the DAC was recessed, thin and not very musical. The mods opened up the sound and the soundstage enormously; the resulting DAC sounds vastly better and is an excellent solution for me. I cannot compare it to the Schiit Modi 2 Uber, but the 8x TDA1387 DAC fairs well in comparison to the Schiit Bifrost Uber in my main system. Yes, the Bifrost is better, but that's hardly surprising -- the Bifrost cost 3 times what the modified TDA1387 DAC cost me.
The TDA1387 DAC is still available (not on ebay but from a few other sites noted by abraxalito in his wiki). Modifying the DAC was inexpensive, easy (aside from a problem clearing some of the vias) and took me a just few hours.
You certainly have options, but this one comes highly recommended.
Regards,
Scott
Thanks for the reply. I ended up getting the SMSL M8 -- ordered it a couple days ago. I'll be getting it in the mail today. I've heard it compares favorably to DACs costing $1000 or more.. so we'll see! Glad your DIY DAC turned out great.
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