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Old 23rd March 2015, 11:32 PM   #441
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Default FIR 2

Stock:
Click the image to open in full size.

TotalCrapRev2
Click the image to open in full size.

LP
Click the image to open in full size.

TCr2 filter is down a couple of dB at 70kHz whereas stock is flat to 100kHz.
LP_FIR2 is a different approach altogether. It's aimed at minimising ringing and ripple so stopband starts far higher than the other two, and attenuation is around -140dB vs -85-90dB for the other two.
Attached Images
File Type: png SKFir2.png (93.6 KB, 582 views)
File Type: png TCFir2.png (97.5 KB, 578 views)
File Type: png LP_FIR2.png (82.0 KB, 358 views)

Last edited by spzzzzkt; 23rd March 2015 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 24th March 2015, 12:16 AM   #442
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Default CRaP Magic

For completeness...

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

The CRaPMagic FIR2 is a similar thing to the LP filter posted a couple of days ago. However it rolls off earlier and stop band starts at around 280kHz instead of 330kHz.
Attached Images
File Type: png TotalCRaPFir2.png (44.6 KB, 360 views)
File Type: png CRaPMagicFIR2.png (78.2 KB, 358 views)
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Old 24th March 2015, 12:18 AM   #443
zfe is offline zfe
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The higher fs filters combined with FIR2 also have the mirror frequencies coming through
here 96kHz with stock FIR2 (reaching about -80 dB)
combi96.jpg

With mpF2_MP (and LP) the image looks alike but with harmless -170 dB peak over -300 dB floor.
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Old 24th March 2015, 02:10 AM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfe View Post
The higher fs filters combined with FIR2 also have the mirror frequencies coming through.

With mpF2_MP (and LP) the image looks alike but with harmless -170 dB peak over -300 dB floor.
I hadn't investigated the higher fs filters, so thanks for that.

What I'd been having a look at is SoX upsampling with various combinations on audio...
The following are all taken at 20.208 seconds from the start of So What.

Default FIR1 and FIR2
Click the image to open in full size.

CRaPMagic 44.1 FIR1 and Default FIR2
Click the image to open in full size.

CRaPMagic FIR1 and FIR2
Click the image to open in full size.
Attached Images
File Type: png SW_Stock_441_FIR2.png (92.0 KB, 342 views)
File Type: png SW_CM441_SKF2.png (89.8 KB, 335 views)
File Type: png SW_CM_all.png (85.0 KB, 335 views)
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Old 24th March 2015, 05:42 AM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneoclock View Post
I tried all filters. The best sounding in my opinion is 1021MinPhaseSlowrev1.skr of spzzzzkt. And also those measures i has made are best.

But there is a problem with the measures. All filters of 44,100, 88, ... 352 have noise, saturation, rounding....?
I see in all measures i made, 1k, jitter j-Test, or 19 kHz. -12 DB + 20 khz. -12 dB.
So I gather that is 352 F2 filter problem.
This problem does not occur in 48, .... 384 kHz. measures.
Does the altered FIR2 solve this?
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Old 24th March 2015, 07:38 AM   #446
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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And it is of course the pass band that should always (also) be analyzed. After all, that is what we are listening to.

//
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Old 24th March 2015, 08:20 AM   #447
zfe is offline zfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT View Post
And it is of course the pass band that should always (also) be analyzed. After all, that is what we are listening to.

//
Easy diy Take the octave code from here
Quote:
Originally Posted by zfe View Post
...
and add "semilogx(angle(fft(gfir,fr)));" or "plot(angle(fft(gfir,fr)));" (for linear x-scale, so that linear phase become streight lines).
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Old 24th March 2015, 09:57 AM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT View Post
And it is of course the pass band that should always (also) be analyzed. After all, that is what we are listening to.

//
A couple of days ago you were cheerleading for +/-0.5dB passband ripple if it meant an ideal stop band.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT View Post
So would/will I. Half a dB will not do any harm. I would even trade some ripple below 20khz to get a more ideal stop band.

//

If you want an example of detail of passband:
Filter brewing for the Soekris R2R
Attached image shows passband with a range +/-0.00002dB.

http://www.audiosignal.co.uk/Resourc...fferent_A4.pdf
Quote:
In an early attempt at digital noise suppression, Roger Lagadec, then at Studer, investigated a multiband digital noise gate that split the audio signal into 512 bands, noise-gated the bands separately and then put them back together again. Although this was very effective in reducing noise, it was discovered that there was a disturbing audible colouration, even if the noise-gating action was switched off. It was discovered that this colouration was due to the amplitude response of the filtered bands added together again not being quite flat – there was a 0.1dB ripple in the frequency response. It was found that to remove the upsetting audible colouration required this ripple to be reduced to around 0.001dB. In this case, all the digital filters had linear phase responses – so only the amplitude response could be blamed for the colouration.

Last edited by spzzzzkt; 24th March 2015 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 24th March 2015, 11:07 AM   #449
zfe is offline zfe
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Revision of the Statistics
I made spectrograms from my HD recordings and found several "types" which perhaps would benefit from different types of filters. @ Soren, It would be nice if a later firmware would allow easy filter switching. If possible filter switching during playback and without serial connection, e.g. by giving the input select pins a (optional) new functionality would be nice.

Back to the spectrograms, in order as they appear below:

1. "only audio band type", only content below 22kHz.
(example from: Bizzarrie Armonichoniche; Biber Rosenkranz Sonaten; Label ARTS)

2. "DSD type", considerable noise in the high frequencies content below say 22kHz.
(example from: Florilegium; Pergolesi Stabat Mater; Channel Classics)

3. HF content and incresing noise to the HF end
(example from: Dunedin Consort; Bach Mass in B Minor; Linn Records)

4. moderate HF content below say 35kHZ (with fs 192kHz)
(example from: Henkel; Tchaikovsky Concerto for Violin and Orchestra D major Op. 35; Altana)

5. HF up to the limit, calling for HF-CRAP
(example from: Dunford; Dowland Lachrimae; Alpha)


Also for 44.1-material at least two filters would be good
6. Content up to the Limit, calling for CRAP
(example from: PHILIPPE JORDAN; Verdi Requiem; Erato)

7. Content staying clean away from the frequency limit.
(example from: Pierre-Laurent Aimard; Bach The Art of Fuge; Deutsche Grammophon)

To conclude, I admit 1.) on the HD recordings are not always the interpretations you want to listen to, and I will (also) continue to listen CDs/LPs.
2.) I not always hear what I see on the spectrograms.
Attached Images
File Type: png spectrogram 1 c.png (149.7 KB, 36 views)
File Type: png spectrogram 21.png (256.4 KB, 38 views)
File Type: png spectrogram 4.png (255.3 KB, 34 views)
File Type: png spectrogram 1 b.png (235.5 KB, 34 views)
File Type: png spectrogram 2 b.png (262.3 KB, 377 views)
File Type: png spectrogram 1 a.png (323.3 KB, 32 views)
File Type: png spectrogram 2.png (220.3 KB, 31 views)

Last edited by zfe; 24th March 2015 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 24th March 2015, 01:14 PM   #450
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Not to clutter up this knowledgeable thread with beginners question Ive started Beginners Filter brewing thread for the Soekris R2R
Hope some of you have the patience to visit?
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