Distinction-1541 build thread to ask and discuss !
Long long time ago a question was asked about "Any good TDA 1541A kit" existence, certainly in relation to the bad kits & layouts seen on Ebay: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/203511-any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit.html#post2841261
This famous and complex old 16 bits dac chip from Philips is still loved for its particular representation of sound & versatility of implementation... When accuracy & details are not the only final goal of music lovers...
The "Distinction-1541" is the result of the shared will, experience & knowledge of goodwilled fellows around the idea to have a good enough non commercial coreboard pcb. Because a huge space exists between the best commercial SOTA designs and the very bad kits from Ebay, diyers still needed a "good enough" pcb to test the best shared options.
A complete kit was not possible: too many options for the input stage or outputstages. And... this is for non commercial use only... also for a maximum of TDA-1541 lovers !
"Distinction-1541" interest group buy : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...est-list-tda1541a-core-board.html#post3921851
Some of the best ideas were kindly given since many years to the diyers communauty by famous diyers like John from ECDESIGN, Thorsten from AMR, Pedja from AUDIAL and are present with several possible final choices.
So here is the place to talk about the populating options of the Distinctive-1541 coreboard (PS, DEM, I2S, simultaned mode, caps, resistors, wine, beers
Inputs stage can be also discussed here : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...nderstanding-non-specialists.html#post3970563
Output tube (and related power supply) stage are discussed here ( Andrea_Mori & Ceglar): non high voltage specialists & experienced with tubes: get away, this can kill you :http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...uffer-need-your-contribution.html#post3219834
As the Distinction-1541 is versatil, layout allows vias for a daughter clock board Andrea is designing around a very good Crystal. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ow-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator.html
Output stages with Solid-State can be discussed in this thread below, e.g. : Cen/ZEn, buffer, output stages of Powersupply.
People are here to help each others as the coreboard pcb was firstly maid for experienced people... and not animals (see photograph): so stay cool, answers are not guaranted... after all this is non commercial !
Chewie
Erata : some problems of layout relative to the grounding were not seen before the printing in the published draft. I don't advise to populate the Distinction V1 but for some Learning experiments. This shared great open project becomed a solo project with the V2 edition as the drawner printed the pcb without sharing the gerbers and didn' accept the usefull critics made about the grounding shematic after those big basic errors were seen. The V2 edition seems to have more to see with marketing and with a non usefull complexety which seems to be more a source of errors than an improvement. Critics made on the V1 for improvement were not listened by the drawner who begann a V2 on the non understood bases of shematics shared by great technicians (named above at the beginning of the post).
At least this is my opinion and the one of some experienced diyers with the tda1541 chips, but not shared by few whom have not benchmarked it with some sota pcb (I did)! Distinction V1 pcb as V2 is not better than a basic EBay pcb according to me if the goal is to have Something "good enough" in relation to the best DIY projects made with the TDA1541 complex dac chip.
Long long time ago a question was asked about "Any good TDA 1541A kit" existence, certainly in relation to the bad kits & layouts seen on Ebay: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/203511-any-good-tda1541a-dac-kit.html#post2841261
This famous and complex old 16 bits dac chip from Philips is still loved for its particular representation of sound & versatility of implementation... When accuracy & details are not the only final goal of music lovers...
The "Distinction-1541" is the result of the shared will, experience & knowledge of goodwilled fellows around the idea to have a good enough non commercial coreboard pcb. Because a huge space exists between the best commercial SOTA designs and the very bad kits from Ebay, diyers still needed a "good enough" pcb to test the best shared options.
A complete kit was not possible: too many options for the input stage or outputstages. And... this is for non commercial use only... also for a maximum of TDA-1541 lovers !
"Distinction-1541" interest group buy : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...est-list-tda1541a-core-board.html#post3921851
Some of the best ideas were kindly given since many years to the diyers communauty by famous diyers like John from ECDESIGN, Thorsten from AMR, Pedja from AUDIAL and are present with several possible final choices.
So here is the place to talk about the populating options of the Distinctive-1541 coreboard (PS, DEM, I2S, simultaned mode, caps, resistors, wine, beers
Inputs stage can be also discussed here : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...nderstanding-non-specialists.html#post3970563
Output tube (and related power supply) stage are discussed here ( Andrea_Mori & Ceglar): non high voltage specialists & experienced with tubes: get away, this can kill you :http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...uffer-need-your-contribution.html#post3219834
As the Distinction-1541 is versatil, layout allows vias for a daughter clock board Andrea is designing around a very good Crystal. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ow-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator.html
Output stages with Solid-State can be discussed in this thread below, e.g. : Cen/ZEn, buffer, output stages of Powersupply.
People are here to help each others as the coreboard pcb was firstly maid for experienced people... and not animals (see photograph): so stay cool, answers are not guaranted... after all this is non commercial !
Chewie
Erata : some problems of layout relative to the grounding were not seen before the printing in the published draft. I don't advise to populate the Distinction V1 but for some Learning experiments. This shared great open project becomed a solo project with the V2 edition as the drawner printed the pcb without sharing the gerbers and didn' accept the usefull critics made about the grounding shematic after those big basic errors were seen. The V2 edition seems to have more to see with marketing and with a non usefull complexety which seems to be more a source of errors than an improvement. Critics made on the V1 for improvement were not listened by the drawner who begann a V2 on the non understood bases of shematics shared by great technicians (named above at the beginning of the post).
At least this is my opinion and the one of some experienced diyers with the tda1541 chips, but not shared by few whom have not benchmarked it with some sota pcb (I did)! Distinction V1 pcb as V2 is not better than a basic EBay pcb according to me if the goal is to have Something "good enough" in relation to the best DIY projects made with the TDA1541 complex dac chip.
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Yeah all the wemen look at me with my string on the beach or when at ski in the mountain (wookie is more regulated than the best power supplies & stay cool in all circonstances !)
... Pets makeup have a great future ! This market is totaly business free ! I'm working also on a brand new concept: makeup line for fabric material : burkas, commando masks, surgeons mask, japanese anti gripp masks are a little sad and needs some embellishment... imagine a commando masks with a big lipstick smile on it before an assault : nicer for the info mess on TV !
But the huger market is for the domestic pets : frenchs are very sensible with fame like japaneses are with their dogs and cats ! A barber shop for wookies, with an Ongaku Kissa in a french Castle in the same time... with some crocodile fishing party above the moats after wine degustations ? Still looking for a new job ! trying to sell this last idea to Club Med for their villages !
... Pets makeup have a great future ! This market is totaly business free ! I'm working also on a brand new concept: makeup line for fabric material : burkas, commando masks, surgeons mask, japanese anti gripp masks are a little sad and needs some embellishment... imagine a commando masks with a big lipstick smile on it before an assault : nicer for the info mess on TV !
But the huger market is for the domestic pets : frenchs are very sensible with fame like japaneses are with their dogs and cats ! A barber shop for wookies, with an Ongaku Kissa in a french Castle in the same time... with some crocodile fishing party above the moats after wine degustations ? Still looking for a new job ! trying to sell this last idea to Club Med for their villages !
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Hi Luke,
Tell us a bit about your future setup and your goals are for the sound quality, etc. Are you interested in experimenting? Or do you just want a finished product? What are you thinking you want to do with the DEM? Are you going to use the 6k8 resistors to stabilize the oscillator? Or are you considering an external solution such as locking it to BCK, as in the Grundig solution?
There really are many options, you'll have to go down a path that will lead to your ultimate goal.
For me i didn't quite know exactly what i wanted until i heard just how good this DAC could sound with a really good layout. It seems that this is the most critical aspect for the TDA1541A. So the components you choose will not have as big an impact on the sound quality as the layout in my opinion, although good quality parts are essential.
Ryan
We can maybe try to make a short list for 2 or 3 options of DEM then give the values around. Some people like me or Badri e.g. are not sure about what they want. For me I'm goging also to have the Audial PCB so I will try two or three setup.
Have also some ideas about reference polymers near the dac but most of people think it's magic & not important, experience shows me the opposite : the process comes at the end but is important...unluckily this not universal as the setup is maid on a subjectiv hifi system but it allows to avoid the bad results like too smooth, too dry, too tighty, worst tonal results... my speakers have a neutral tonal balance (35 hz to 30 k hz) and amps is transparent I have not yet my I2StoPCM boards... think Ian is off for summertime...
Also for I/V resistor we can propose a short list starting to a good cheap resistor (e.g. Ceglar go with carbon with tubes iirc).
I think maybe we can start with the values used by experienced users like Ryan or Shane if different, I'm going to try also the DEM of John with him 0.33 uF decoupling caps and the 6k8 resistors. About the resistors : series has to be given also; e.g. Sussumu RR low noise (?) if smd. Thick resistor elswhere when on the signal (?)
I like this pcb : so versatil : you can use smd like bulk parts !
@ Shane :
: fur is protected ! the only one Leia want to have is her wookie alive and our dog. Nono, my string on beach and at ski stations are in red fabric : same color than the one of your australian bodyguards ! Poor rabitts, let them breath !
Just came back from the 2500s anual wookies congress : Wookie is protected in all the galaxies, even a japonese member said than they can't have sepuku ! But here we saw than on earth, big coward hunters with big stomach and little bollocks kill always white druged white lions in South Africa private parcs... At the Wookies congress we found strange than hunters with antlers hunt lions while their wives are catched at home ! Maybe the last cartbridges they can shoot ?
Please find a photograph of our dog called Jaba the hunt ! Maybe we can call him Putama or Obamine ?! But even the dogs let the children live !
Have also some ideas about reference polymers near the dac but most of people think it's magic & not important, experience shows me the opposite : the process comes at the end but is important...unluckily this not universal as the setup is maid on a subjectiv hifi system but it allows to avoid the bad results like too smooth, too dry, too tighty, worst tonal results... my speakers have a neutral tonal balance (35 hz to 30 k hz) and amps is transparent I have not yet my I2StoPCM boards... think Ian is off for summertime...
Also for I/V resistor we can propose a short list starting to a good cheap resistor (e.g. Ceglar go with carbon with tubes iirc).
I think maybe we can start with the values used by experienced users like Ryan or Shane if different, I'm going to try also the DEM of John with him 0.33 uF decoupling caps and the 6k8 resistors. About the resistors : series has to be given also; e.g. Sussumu RR low noise (?) if smd. Thick resistor elswhere when on the signal (?)
I like this pcb : so versatil : you can use smd like bulk parts !
@ Shane :
: fur is protected ! the only one Leia want to have is her wookie alive and our dog. Nono, my string on beach and at ski stations are in red fabric : same color than the one of your australian bodyguards ! Poor rabitts, let them breath !Just came back from the 2500s anual wookies congress : Wookie is protected in all the galaxies, even a japonese member said than they can't have sepuku ! But here we saw than on earth, big coward hunters with big stomach and little bollocks kill always white druged white lions in South Africa private parcs... At the Wookies congress we found strange than hunters with antlers hunt lions while their wives are catched at home ! Maybe the last cartbridges they can shoot ?
Please find a photograph of our dog called Jaba the hunt ! Maybe we can call him Putama or Obamine ?! But even the dogs let the children live !
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I would like to keep it simple just so as I get something built and maybe try different things if I feel like improving it, ie simple iv like cen, simple 3 terminal pre regs and a tl431 near the chip.
I would like to use ians i2s to pcm and usb is what I use. When it comes to clocks I just dont get it. Please confirm that DEM is something I should is if I have no external clock. If that's the case given I want to use Ians I2S to PCM, and dont want to buy a clock at this stage, I should use DEM. Is this correct. And if I use DEM, I should use the 6k8 resistors as they seem to make an improvement, why wouldn't I?
Im nervous about smt, I dont like it and I think with my 50watt goot iron, I will struggle to get the caps soldered with out overheating. Which brings to my next question, off topic of course, whats a good iron to use for these. We have jaycars here, they must have something.
Luke, if shunt reg is used : yes it has to be very close to the dac chip and the value before the shunt very big (10k to 20k uf) : you will need to stack above the Distinction coreboard ! 3D design as says Mr T. ! If you use the shunt with TL431 (than you will buy from On Semiconductor as many dispersion from constructor with this chip) : you will just need to ue 0.1 uf 0603 smd NPO for PS decoupling near the dac chip ! (I'm not talking about the 14 decoupling of course : ceramic here has to ne avoid). It's a question of impedance profil, to have it the flatest we can pragmally have... Look also at the regulated shunt regs section maid by Abraxalito in him private blog here ( the Art of analogic iirc !)
If you are looking for already maid 3 legs regulator à la 78xx I opened a thread in the PowerSupply section. It's not for this DAC board but could be if needed as I ask for supply a digital dac section as well !
Believe than for farer PS, Nazaar fellow shematics are interresting !
If you are looking for already maid 3 legs regulator à la 78xx I opened a thread in the PowerSupply section. It's not for this DAC board but could be if needed as I ask for supply a digital dac section as well !
Believe than for farer PS, Nazaar fellow shematics are interresting !
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I'm asked the same when I soldered for the first time smd with Subbu.
Answer is a Weller with magnastat with 60/40 soldering material & some flux (many thread here). Look also the Bob's Thread about smd soldering : 'Subbu V3 build thread" : even video to allow you to start with less risks !
Ha!.. that is not a dog, its an Ewok!!.. how did you smuggle him from the forest moon?.
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Luke,
Notice I'm a poor technician and the little knowledge I have is more empirical with low technical background than anything else.
Show us a shematic, reference or photograph of your PS for a more easier answer.
Forgot than you have to buy an ESD wrist strap (less than 7 USD) if you have not it yet (for PPS caps, TDA itself).
@ all : For output stage I'm asking myself if there are some newer OPA with more interresting spec than AD844 or op861... for I/V stage? Then a classic buffer without voltage drift to avoid caps ? A la CEN/ZEN !
Is there a possibility to have an easy coupling of transistors without buying 100 to find pefect couples transistors ? A supplier on the web who do that (coupled transistors) ?
@ Shane,
Ewok is a near species ! But mine is more sensible to wine than water !
It's my second dog as my first wife leaved me with our previous dog ! I'm always asking why (please find a picture of my first dog !)
Notice I'm a poor technician and the little knowledge I have is more empirical with low technical background than anything else.
Show us a shematic, reference or photograph of your PS for a more easier answer.
Forgot than you have to buy an ESD wrist strap (less than 7 USD) if you have not it yet (for PPS caps, TDA itself).
@ all : For output stage I'm asking myself if there are some newer OPA with more interresting spec than AD844 or op861... for I/V stage? Then a classic buffer without voltage drift to avoid caps ? A la CEN/ZEN !
Is there a possibility to have an easy coupling of transistors without buying 100 to find pefect couples transistors ? A supplier on the web who do that (coupled transistors) ?
@ Shane,
Ewok is a near species ! But mine is more sensible to wine than water !
It's my second dog as my first wife leaved me with our previous dog !
I'm always asking why (please find a picture of my first dog !)Attachments
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Hi Edlam, do you need a wrist strap for capacitors? My knowledge is getting outdated
Power supplies will liekly be lm317 app note for pre reg and same or maybe Mr Ts addagio for Tl431 near chip. I need to get a case first, maybe two chassis , one for psu that can scale should I upgrade add more transformers for HT if need be. And plenty of space in the other case to add bits and pieces if required. im not fond of space restrictions.
Power supplies will liekly be lm317 app note for pre reg and same or maybe Mr Ts addagio for Tl431 near chip. I need to get a case first, maybe two chassis , one for psu that can scale should I upgrade add more transformers for HT if need be. And plenty of space in the other case to add bits and pieces if required. im not fond of space restrictions.
Hi,
Please, is anybody knows a supplier with no fakes parts on Ebay or elswhere which sell matched transitors for a SEN/CEN shematic or equivalent to avoid outputs caps ?
Is there others musical discrete I/V stage for the TDA1541A but the "traditional" 0p861 or AD844 with high slew rates ?
Thanks
Please, is anybody knows a supplier with no fakes parts on Ebay or elswhere which sell matched transitors for a SEN/CEN shematic or equivalent to avoid outputs caps ?
Is there others musical discrete I/V stage for the TDA1541A but the "traditional" 0p861 or AD844 with high slew rates ?
Thanks
hi Edlam, Ruach from DIYAudio may have some, check the swap meet. He has a website http://www.fetaudio.com/store as well.
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copied from the Distinction-1541 interrest list....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanj
Im using salas shunts for all my supplies and an LM317 for my FIFO. The TL431 and the LM317 as a pre reg may be a good combo.
Hi Aronier,
Maybe this could help you : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power...ml#post4007114
Those designs with LM317 & TL431 are good, but we have maid some progress since. they are rapid, but a little noisy in relation maybe to the modern one à la Salas fellow (that I never tried myself, just read it!). The rule here is to have a good big cap before and ALWAYS a pi filer before.
With the LM317, i would have a look at the Nazaar regs whithout outputs caps but 0.1 uf : a little the same than a shunt.
All those Shunt like have to be very close to the load... not at 10 or 20 cm.... That's why I'm for a pcb which allow the regulation to be close to the load...at least for the last stage : but here we have to be carefull : all the ldo regs in an embeded chip are not musical... we have the temptation to look at the low noise value which is not enough (i talk about analogic stage here !)
@ Luke,
Thank you Luke,
Is there a wide dispersion of the idss ? Or are those values relativly close ? What is most of the time the number needed to match a pair ? With your answer, I understand there are 2 tiles less loss
I opened a thread for that (Build thread for the Distinction-1541) : it could be simplier to merge all your questions and answer in it to allow everybody to read it : there are many repetitions with all the thread open around the TDA...
Last edited by Eldam; Today at 01:57 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanj
Im using salas shunts for all my supplies and an LM317 for my FIFO. The TL431 and the LM317 as a pre reg may be a good combo.
Hi Aronier,
Maybe this could help you : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power...ml#post4007114
Those designs with LM317 & TL431 are good, but we have maid some progress since. they are rapid, but a little noisy in relation maybe to the modern one à la Salas fellow (that I never tried myself, just read it!). The rule here is to have a good big cap before and ALWAYS a pi filer before.
With the LM317, i would have a look at the Nazaar regs whithout outputs caps but 0.1 uf : a little the same than a shunt.
All those Shunt like have to be very close to the load... not at 10 or 20 cm.... That's why I'm for a pcb which allow the regulation to be close to the load...at least for the last stage : but here we have to be carefull : all the ldo regs in an embeded chip are not musical... we have the temptation to look at the low noise value which is not enough (i talk about analogic stage here !)
@ Luke,
Thank you Luke,
Is there a wide dispersion of the idss ? Or are those values relativly close ? What is most of the time the number needed to match a pair ? With your answer, I understand there are 2 tiles less loss
I opened a thread for that (Build thread for the Distinction-1541) : it could be simplier to merge all your questions and answer in it to allow everybody to read it : there are many repetitions with all the thread open around the TDA...
Last edited by Eldam; Today at 01:57 PM.
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