HI,
I would like to list the already made multiple daughter boards solutions to feed the I2S of the TDA 1541 for the enthusiast with low technical background as I. In fact both mode : Simultanous mode (L/R in same time) and the pure I2S.
Jitter (phase problem to be short= problem of timing tempo with the two chanels data, and the blocks data between itselves in a same chanel) of the I2S with all the best outputstages can be heard, even if the low fhz of the TDA1541 give to this chip a higher immunity against the jitter as Abraxalito fellow says. John fellow (ECDESIGNS) in him awsome thread testimonied the TDA1541 has an intreseq jitter of 150 ps because its internal architecture. We have to approach this... theoricaly.
Of course you can use a CD driver kit with I2S output like the famous CDM pro from Philips. But more and more we have data librairies on computer or small little embeded NAS. Small cheap computers like Qubiq (less than 100 dollars) seems to be the futurs also for local networks ! So here the output is a physical link : USB (from a laptop, a little computer near your DAC, a Squeezebox Touch) or a>Cat5e cable for RJ45 with a local network : like the SqueezeBox Duet, a computer, a RasberryPI, a Qubiq. One of the problem is the multiplication of links here and connections with several impedance, ground problems : it's a noise generator also.Let remenber all those flux are in fact "analogic" : it's DC electricity ! But more complicated than a phono cellul a shigh frequencies and question of timing and multiplexed flux are involved. Sorry here to be long, it's for non specialists...
You need to output the datas a soundcard with an spidf (single RCA connector : bad choice as it is 50 ohms instead the 75 ohms of the spidf protocol). Or with an USB plug to link an external USB to I2S device like the famous Amareno. Or at least a device whic receive from your local network the music by wifi (AIR from Apple, Squeezebox, some WIFI DNLA devices for mass market...).
Another solution is the SD card kit ECDESIGNS (John) uses. Less expensive but less versatile also (very good solution for the travelers SD cards are light). A part of him work about I2S jitter passive atenuation stay valid between any daughter boards and the dac chip itself also.
There are a lot of posibilities with SPIDF to I2S and USB to I2S. USB to I2S seems to win for sound quality.
For many Iancanada's complete kit line is the reference: SOTA development and quality and printing and factory maid, but can be too expensive for some of us. Notice you must find an USB to I2S device also as it is "just" a solution to resolve the speed issues (jitter) as the noise issues (remenber all this active devices before your DAC with gnd problems, multiple impedance;;; beurk !).
If you don't use the USB to output your datas, IanCanada maid also a SOTA Spidf daughter board to be use with its FiFO (to be short the FIFO is a solution to buffer the clocks datas and the sounds data itselves to re synchronise them with a high precision clock(s) and with a noise separation from the sources - e.g. the isolator kit )
Of course a simple SPIDF to I2S or a USB to I2S is enough for your TDA1541 chip. I will list some ready made devices with the help I hope of goodwilled fellows -to rectify my errors of understanding and list their own devices. Its important because compatibilities between devices ; e.g. some have a bitclock (BLCK) at 128 fs instead the official 64 fs.
The main difficult things to understand for me are: the clocks frequencies with multiple devices and the best choices to use for the TDA1541 in relation to ours data librairies.
NOS, oversampling or not, mix of both. If so : on the fly or maid off line before and recorded in the Datastore. Pure NOS at 44 khz seems a little hard for ears, many like better a closed 48 khz. Some have HDCD reccording, Some prefer oversampling like IanCanada with him kits and play NOS at the end and allow in the same time the silmutanous mode for multibits DAC like the TDA1541 with the I2S to PCM kit. Overs choose to oversample their librairy with a software and reccord it in their librairy. To be discussed also...
The spirit of this thread is to write for fellows like me whom have a low technical background to make easier the choice of the devices in relation to their money and understanding and improve their final understanding and final decision capability.
It's totaly open for both theorical discussion and technical about the devices but at the end do help to choose pragmatic solutions (kits). Price is a part of the discussion not to benchmark the best solutions but to allow a large choice for all enthusiasts in the same spirit some fellows allow with the born of the "Distinctive TDA1541" core board with their positiv(ist?) collaborative work (look at "Any good TDA 1541 kits" thread).
to be continued... thank you for your help, sorry to be so long, please share
I would like to list the already made multiple daughter boards solutions to feed the I2S of the TDA 1541 for the enthusiast with low technical background as I. In fact both mode : Simultanous mode (L/R in same time) and the pure I2S.
Jitter (phase problem to be short= problem of timing tempo with the two chanels data, and the blocks data between itselves in a same chanel) of the I2S with all the best outputstages can be heard, even if the low fhz of the TDA1541 give to this chip a higher immunity against the jitter as Abraxalito fellow says. John fellow (ECDESIGNS) in him awsome thread testimonied the TDA1541 has an intreseq jitter of 150 ps because its internal architecture. We have to approach this... theoricaly.
Of course you can use a CD driver kit with I2S output like the famous CDM pro from Philips. But more and more we have data librairies on computer or small little embeded NAS. Small cheap computers like Qubiq (less than 100 dollars) seems to be the futurs also for local networks ! So here the output is a physical link : USB (from a laptop, a little computer near your DAC, a Squeezebox Touch) or a>Cat5e cable for RJ45 with a local network : like the SqueezeBox Duet, a computer, a RasberryPI, a Qubiq. One of the problem is the multiplication of links here and connections with several impedance, ground problems : it's a noise generator also.Let remenber all those flux are in fact "analogic" : it's DC electricity ! But more complicated than a phono cellul a shigh frequencies and question of timing and multiplexed flux are involved. Sorry here to be long, it's for non specialists...
You need to output the datas a soundcard with an spidf (single RCA connector : bad choice as it is 50 ohms instead the 75 ohms of the spidf protocol). Or with an USB plug to link an external USB to I2S device like the famous Amareno. Or at least a device whic receive from your local network the music by wifi (AIR from Apple, Squeezebox, some WIFI DNLA devices for mass market...).
Another solution is the SD card kit ECDESIGNS (John) uses. Less expensive but less versatile also (very good solution for the travelers SD cards are light). A part of him work about I2S jitter passive atenuation stay valid between any daughter boards and the dac chip itself also.
There are a lot of posibilities with SPIDF to I2S and USB to I2S. USB to I2S seems to win for sound quality.
For many Iancanada's complete kit line is the reference: SOTA development and quality and printing and factory maid, but can be too expensive for some of us. Notice you must find an USB to I2S device also as it is "just" a solution to resolve the speed issues (jitter) as the noise issues (remenber all this active devices before your DAC with gnd problems, multiple impedance;;; beurk !).
If you don't use the USB to output your datas, IanCanada maid also a SOTA Spidf daughter board to be use with its FiFO (to be short the FIFO is a solution to buffer the clocks datas and the sounds data itselves to re synchronise them with a high precision clock(s) and with a noise separation from the sources - e.g. the isolator kit )
Of course a simple SPIDF to I2S or a USB to I2S is enough for your TDA1541 chip. I will list some ready made devices with the help I hope of goodwilled fellows -to rectify my errors of understanding and list their own devices. Its important because compatibilities between devices ; e.g. some have a bitclock (BLCK) at 128 fs instead the official 64 fs.
The main difficult things to understand for me are: the clocks frequencies with multiple devices and the best choices to use for the TDA1541 in relation to ours data librairies.
NOS, oversampling or not, mix of both. If so : on the fly or maid off line before and recorded in the Datastore. Pure NOS at 44 khz seems a little hard for ears, many like better a closed 48 khz. Some have HDCD reccording, Some prefer oversampling like IanCanada with him kits and play NOS at the end and allow in the same time the silmutanous mode for multibits DAC like the TDA1541 with the I2S to PCM kit. Overs choose to oversample their librairy with a software and reccord it in their librairy. To be discussed also...
The spirit of this thread is to write for fellows like me whom have a low technical background to make easier the choice of the devices in relation to their money and understanding and improve their final understanding and final decision capability.
It's totaly open for both theorical discussion and technical about the devices but at the end do help to choose pragmatic solutions (kits). Price is a part of the discussion not to benchmark the best solutions but to allow a large choice for all enthusiasts in the same spirit some fellows allow with the born of the "Distinctive TDA1541" core board with their positiv(ist?) collaborative work (look at "Any good TDA 1541 kits" thread).
to be continued... thank you for your help, sorry to be so long, please share
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No I can't as I lake both of technical backgroung and good english !But I spent one hour to make the question short as it's a difficult t(ask) for me : it's the Title of the the thread !
There are several questions and the goal is to concentrate it in a standalone thread... for non specialists. Not to do the opposite : many shorts questions in many threads: It's not about learning the morse !
And I'am for a more longer and precise intro with illustrations than a too open short question ! to be short is the knowledge of the whom who know (i like the w letter !)But I will continue of course as others can do also with a list of device and the questions will be I surmise more beamed !
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Hopefully the following question is within the scope of this nice initiative.
The first post mentions, among others, 'Ian's complete kit is the reference'. In the diyaudio tradition, I have already read quite some related basics, and grasp the technical idea. However, reading through Ian's thread it is quite hard for an analog diy-er to decode all the digital abbreviations. My aim is to have an USB to I2S connection between a computer and a TDA1541a DAC at the highest possible resolution. Could someone please explain in straight forward language what exactly is needed of Ian's modules to accomplish this, and what are the functions of each module involved?
The first post mentions, among others, 'Ian's complete kit is the reference'. In the diyaudio tradition, I have already read quite some related basics, and grasp the technical idea. However, reading through Ian's thread it is quite hard for an analog diy-er to decode all the digital abbreviations. My aim is to have an USB to I2S connection between a computer and a TDA1541a DAC at the highest possible resolution. Could someone please explain in straight forward language what exactly is needed of Ian's modules to accomplish this, and what are the functions of each module involved?
Please fellows, correct me if I'm wrong as it's a thread for beginners about numeric questions !
AV-trouvaille, all those questions are difficult because there are a lot of choice not only with kits but also with set up around the DAC and its speed : NOS or Oversampled (= DS - what is the D here ?)
Do you check the first page of Ian's thread with the selection guide ?
Another thing is : if you don't choose him SPIDF input device you must choose between the many USB to I2S devices of the market. One objectiv of the thread is to understand how to choose them in relation to your own TDA1541 DAC and the frequencie it uses.
As a beginning : TDA1541 is I2S compatible and the FIFO can feed him alone, but you have also other choices :my very simple understanding is :
You can:
- put the I2S to PCM kit in front of the FIFO : you go out with 4 flux which are better than the 3 of the I2S. The multiplexed data flux of the I2S is separated in Left and Right (two words of 32 bits). In one word : better Sound Quality. TDA1541 has two L and r input but you Layout must be compatible as two others pins of the DAC must be connected together to allow this choice of two flux instead an alone multiplexed one. More details in the I2S to PCM thread of IanCanada.
- use the I2S to PCM alone without the others Ian's kits : it need an external clock which act as a master clock (MCLK). Can come from a device before or better from the clock near the DAC chip if this one allow one more link than the DAC chip alone !
At least the I2S protocol allow different speed of MCLK devices to work together. But saw some have different BCLK fs : 32; 64 or 128
One question is :
If the DAC see the BCLK of the input device e.g. an USB to I2S which has its chip programed with a BCLK at 128 fs (instead the canonical 64 fs) : is it compatible with the TDA 1541 ? Does it affect the sound ?
AV-trouvaille, all those questions are difficult because there are a lot of choice not only with kits but also with set up around the DAC and its speed : NOS or Oversampled (= DS - what is the D here ?)
Do you check the first page of Ian's thread with the selection guide ?
Another thing is : if you don't choose him SPIDF input device you must choose between the many USB to I2S devices of the market. One objectiv of the thread is to understand how to choose them in relation to your own TDA1541 DAC and the frequencie it uses.
As a beginning : TDA1541 is I2S compatible and the FIFO can feed him alone, but you have also other choices :my very simple understanding is :
You can:
- put the I2S to PCM kit in front of the FIFO : you go out with 4 flux which are better than the 3 of the I2S. The multiplexed data flux of the I2S is separated in Left and Right (two words of 32 bits). In one word : better Sound Quality. TDA1541 has two L and r input but you Layout must be compatible as two others pins of the DAC must be connected together to allow this choice of two flux instead an alone multiplexed one. More details in the I2S to PCM thread of IanCanada.
- use the I2S to PCM alone without the others Ian's kits : it need an external clock which act as a master clock (MCLK). Can come from a device before or better from the clock near the DAC chip if this one allow one more link than the DAC chip alone !
At least the I2S protocol allow different speed of MCLK devices to work together. But saw some have different BCLK fs : 32; 64 or 128
One question is :
If the DAC see the BCLK of the input device e.g. an USB to I2S which has its chip programed with a BCLK at 128 fs (instead the canonical 64 fs) : is it compatible with the TDA 1541 ? Does it affect the sound ?
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hI,
Another question ; how about those for a TDA1541A :
Isolated XMOS DSD DXD 384kHz high-quality USB to I2S/DSD PCB with ultralow noise regulator - DIYINHK
or less expensive also 'but no Xo output and no isolator) : XMOS DSD DXD 384kHz high-quality USB to I2S/DSD PCB - DIYINHK
Another side of this thread is how to feed the "first device to I2S" : here an interresting testimonie from Soundcheck fellow : http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.fr/2011/05/hirez-audio-treasure-island.html . thanks to him for the Cubietruck board input (far better than a rasberrypi) : http://cubieboard.org : it's a serious candidate to replace the squeezebox !
Anybody to explain to av-trouvaille fellow in one sentence each module of Ian's Kits line ?
(Why one or two clocks boards ? why isolator and where... it's a factory and I can't understand myself anything ?!)
thank you for your help
Another question ; how about those for a TDA1541A :
Isolated XMOS DSD DXD 384kHz high-quality USB to I2S/DSD PCB with ultralow noise regulator - DIYINHK
or less expensive also 'but no Xo output and no isolator) : XMOS DSD DXD 384kHz high-quality USB to I2S/DSD PCB - DIYINHK
Another side of this thread is how to feed the "first device to I2S" : here an interresting testimonie from Soundcheck fellow : http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.fr/2011/05/hirez-audio-treasure-island.html . thanks to him for the Cubietruck board input (far better than a rasberrypi) : http://cubieboard.org : it's a serious candidate to replace the squeezebox !
Anybody to explain to av-trouvaille fellow in one sentence each module of Ian's Kits line ?
(Why one or two clocks boards ? why isolator and where... it's a factory and I can't understand myself anything ?!)
thank you for your help
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Could you summarize your question in one sentence?
I found a question, but I don't know how to answer it?
Thank you Andrew for your great help you don t find a question in the intro as there were not:, maybe try the questions after....sorry to not have your knowledge: everybody is free not to read if too long but maybe some could appreciate this help.
A longer intro can help to do shorter answer which is positiv....Voila for your short question...hope it helps....
A longer intro can help to do shorter answer which is positiv....Voila for your short question...hope it helps....
Hi Badri,
Nice to see you here afterr the great adventure of the Subbu. As you understand this is a thread for non specialists like us: I hope we can be helped by the whom with more understanding.
Only the AYA2 2014 revision has the possibility to be feed in the silmutanous mode. Do you ask about this one ?
One of the positiv(...) result of the "Any good TDA1541 kit" thread was to have the possibility with a switch to allow the silmutanous board : both on the AYA2 revision by Pedja Rodjic (board is going to be print) and the RyanJ Distinctive-TDA1541 core board (board is also going to be print). Those two boards were the results of this positiv(ist) thread. As it's open, specialists of Epestimology are welcome : world class scientists as modest diyers. In German "ist" is the the third personn of the "to be" verb ! Is it a word-game : positiv-ist ? (Hé I like the blabla !)
I follow Ceglar fellow advise and went on the "I2S to PCM" board by IanCanada : 65 US dollars IIRC. Need to be feed by an external Master clock. In your case (AYA2 2014 revision limited edition) need the one on the US to I2S board before. I gave a link above : the most expensive kit of DIYHINK allow to feed the "I2S to PCM" board with uf.l wire (one is provided in the Ian's kit : the shorter the better). Notice you must add uf.l connectors on the Ian board (optional?????: maybe for noise reasons as there is a connector before ?) as the AYA2 2014 revision provide Uf.l connectors (P. Rodjic input on the Audial site - demand of Cheung aka fellow CFT).
Maybe there are others possibilities I don't know, it's an open thread everybody is welcome, my knowledge is very low. For the CD driver please check the compatibility maybe in the Ian's thread : check before if your cd driver kit output in standard I2S, then ask. In the I2S protocol, my understanding is the MCLK can be different, the lessier dictate the speed and of course the possibility of the dac chip ! For me one mystery is the speed of BCLK. The kit above is 128 fs : i don't know if it's compatible with the TDA1541 ? You can programe it : but you need to spend more to buy the device to do it ! Please read this one : USB AUDIO | H i F i D U I N O .
Nice to see you here afterr the great adventure of the Subbu. As you understand this is a thread for non specialists like us: I hope we can be helped by the whom with more understanding.
Only the AYA2 2014 revision has the possibility to be feed in the silmutanous mode. Do you ask about this one ?
One of the positiv(...) result of the "Any good TDA1541 kit" thread was to have the possibility with a switch to allow the silmutanous board : both on the AYA2 revision by Pedja Rodjic (board is going to be print) and the RyanJ Distinctive-TDA1541 core board (board is also going to be print). Those two boards were the results of this positiv(ist) thread. As it's open, specialists of Epestimology are welcome : world class scientists as modest diyers. In German "ist" is the the third personn of the "to be" verb ! Is it a word-game : positiv-ist ?
(Hé I like the blabla !)I follow Ceglar fellow advise and went on the "I2S to PCM" board by IanCanada : 65 US dollars IIRC. Need to be feed by an external Master clock. In your case (AYA2 2014 revision limited edition) need the one on the US to I2S board before. I gave a link above : the most expensive kit of DIYHINK allow to feed the "I2S to PCM" board with uf.l wire (one is provided in the Ian's kit : the shorter the better). Notice you must add uf.l connectors on the Ian board (optional?????: maybe for noise reasons as there is a connector before ?) as the AYA2 2014 revision provide Uf.l connectors (P. Rodjic input on the Audial site - demand of Cheung aka fellow CFT).
Maybe there are others possibilities I don't know, it's an open thread everybody is welcome, my knowledge is very low. For the CD driver please check the compatibility maybe in the Ian's thread : check before if your cd driver kit output in standard I2S, then ask. In the I2S protocol, my understanding is the MCLK can be different, the lessier dictate the speed and of course the possibility of the dac chip ! For me one mystery is the speed of BCLK. The kit above is 128 fs : i don't know if it's compatible with the TDA1541 ? You can programe it : but you need to spend more to buy the device to do it ! Please read this one : USB AUDIO | H i F i D U I N O .
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Hi There,
There is an excellent primer written and which will explain in detail all of your questions, it can be found at;
Ian's I2S FIFO Project - diyAudio.
FIFO - stores data in RAM and output low jitter bit perfect
ISOLATOR - Isolates the clock board from everything before it.
XO Board - reclocks I2S lines
I2S to PCM - Allows 1541A to run in simultaneous mode.
Simultaneous mode - less jitter, allows for higher sampling rates, extended frequency response (close to 20kHz flat with NON OS at 192kHz).
If highest resolution for 1541A is your goal, I would suggest a suitable USB or SD to I2S interface - FIFO module > Isolator Module > Dual XO board fitted with good 45.xx and 49.xx clocks > I2S to PCM Module > TDA1541A core board in simultaneous mode.
You will without doubt be able to PC upsample to 192kHz successfully, others claim up to 384kHz.
I hope this helps,
Shane
hI,
http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-k...i2sdsd-pcb-with-ultralow-noise-regulator.html
or less expensive also 'but no Xo output and no isolator) : http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/58-xmos-dsd-dxd-384khz-high-quality-usb-to-i2s-pcb.html
really no one try those above ? Are there best than those or good enough for a small price ?
Is A 128 fs for Bclk a problem for the TDA1541 ?
Thanks
http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-k...i2sdsd-pcb-with-ultralow-noise-regulator.html
or less expensive also 'but no Xo output and no isolator) : http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/58-xmos-dsd-dxd-384khz-high-quality-usb-to-i2s-pcb.html
really no one try those above ? Are there best than those or good enough for a small price ?
Is A 128 fs for Bclk a problem for the TDA1541 ?
Thanks
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Well, what a success ! If any have testimonies, yo are welcome :
Otherwise this question of speed of BCLK for a compatibility to feed a TDA1541, I continue for the list of devices for I2S :
The WaveIO I2S to USB from Lorien fellow : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ynchronous-usb-i2s-interface.html#post2570037
100 euros without PP and shiping fees ! Not a gift also. Luckit | Audiophile grade DIY products This one has the same NDK crystals than the DIYHINK but can be slaved with an external Masterclock (but can't be a Masterclock itself as the DIYHINK can be. The WaveIO has an advatange for us : UF.L connectors for all the I2S. And my understanding is it's possible to set up the XMOS without external device (not with the DIYHINK...), but to be checked.
this one also from Joro_s fellow : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/236028-xmos-dsd-384-khz-32bit-usb.html#post3492053. 16 bit compatible (but not 18 to 20 bits if you have another project around those frequencies. Don't know the price.
This one is very expensive www.exadevices.com > Home 300 euros but is a Muliple USB to I2S : you can go for active filtering with it from your computer by connecting several DACs boards !
This one is an Amareno : DAC - AMANERO Combo 384 Interface digitale USB 24bit/384khz vers I2s/DSD : No uf. l connectors but when I look at the XO : they are 22.XX & 24.xxx : the frequencies we need : directly with any dividers : theoricaly less glitch. But I don't know about the quality of the NEC crystals here and the global Layout. Seems not to be an XMOS chip but a Xilinq FGPA chip with another more classical chip ! 32 bits output or 64 and 128...to 256 to 518 for Windows !
I'm waiting for the new Cubitruck A80 with its stronger capacity : it's more an embeded nano computer. But it allows I2S output (no UF.L but a general connector with many pins for many possibilities : I2S, I2C, .... Waited at around 100 USD : you has all : the server, the I2S output, the datalibrairy with a simple 2.5 or 3.5 DD, RJ45, WIFI, HDMI, USB of course... http://cubieboard.org/2014/05/04/cubietech-will-promote-a80-high-performance-mini-pc/ / Linux, but enough for XP pro and maybe for a Windows 8 with the A80. The problem is the quality of the link because the connectors are not maid for our needs (no UF.L connectors) : but maybe worth it if an isolator between it and the DAC pcb ?!
Any one to explain please the BLCK speed concept about the needs for TDA1541 ?
Otherwise this question of speed of BCLK for a compatibility to feed a TDA1541, I continue for the list of devices for I2S :
The WaveIO I2S to USB from Lorien fellow : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ynchronous-usb-i2s-interface.html#post2570037
100 euros without PP and shiping fees ! Not a gift also. Luckit | Audiophile grade DIY products This one has the same NDK crystals than the DIYHINK but can be slaved with an external Masterclock (but can't be a Masterclock itself as the DIYHINK can be. The WaveIO has an advatange for us : UF.L connectors for all the I2S. And my understanding is it's possible to set up the XMOS without external device (not with the DIYHINK...), but to be checked.
this one also from Joro_s fellow : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/236028-xmos-dsd-384-khz-32bit-usb.html#post3492053. 16 bit compatible (but not 18 to 20 bits if you have another project around those frequencies. Don't know the price.
This one is very expensive www.exadevices.com > Home 300 euros but is a Muliple USB to I2S : you can go for active filtering with it from your computer by connecting several DACs boards !
This one is an Amareno : DAC - AMANERO Combo 384 Interface digitale USB 24bit/384khz vers I2s/DSD : No uf. l connectors but when I look at the XO : they are 22.XX & 24.xxx : the frequencies we need : directly with any dividers : theoricaly less glitch. But I don't know about the quality of the NEC crystals here and the global Layout. Seems not to be an XMOS chip but a Xilinq FGPA chip with another more classical chip ! 32 bits output or 64 and 128...to 256 to 518 for Windows !
I'm waiting for the new Cubitruck A80 with its stronger capacity : it's more an embeded nano computer. But it allows I2S output (no UF.L but a general connector with many pins for many possibilities : I2S, I2C, .... Waited at around 100 USD : you has all : the server, the I2S output, the datalibrairy with a simple 2.5 or 3.5 DD, RJ45, WIFI, HDMI, USB of course... http://cubieboard.org/2014/05/04/cubietech-will-promote-a80-high-performance-mini-pc/ / Linux, but enough for XP pro and maybe for a Windows 8 with the A80. The problem is the quality of the link because the connectors are not maid for our needs (no UF.L connectors) : but maybe worth it if an isolator between it and the DAC pcb ?!
Any one to explain please the BLCK speed concept about the needs for TDA1541 ?
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I can report that the Amanero is very easy to use, and with the ISO7640FM chip allow for USB isolation. Supply it with a separate shunt regulator for simple and very good sounding USB interface. The Amanero can be programmed before used with supplied easy to use software. It is not too expensive as well.
I'm tempted to try this , but I cant help but think its going to bring the cost of my dac well over a thousand maybe even 1500 dollars. That buys a very good dac with some resale. Considering I have no decent test equipment, or knowledge of digital electronics, it seems like blind faith that all this cost is worth it. I am not doubting the quality of Ian's engineering, or the worth of his product. What I'm not clear on is that you get to this level of attention to detail, the location of the wires and other interference's is as important as the quality of the kit. Perhaps the I2S to PCM is the way to go and then once I have the dac working add to it with different components over time, ie refine and evaluate each change. Problem with this of course is I would have to wait for the next group buy.
Another option would be a usb input, maybe Joro's XMOS or WavIO, or even one of the Chinese ones Edlam has posted, and feed it straight into the dac or via Ians i2S to PCB board. That way I can get my galvanic isolation via the usb card, utilise a quality device and keep build simple and cost low.
a very goos solution is to ask to pedja Rodjic if any populated AYA2 2014 edition left : for around 450 euros you all on one board and this is the best way to avoid any noise !
I try to understand how a Master clock could be run with both the Distinctive core Board and the I2S to PCM board.
fs. The max input fhz clock input allowed by the TDA1541 is 6400 Khz (6.4 Mhz)
According to the I2S to PCM RTFM, because of the input size of the input Bclk limited at 32 fs or 64 fs and the MCLK fs input at 128 fs minimum:
- The ideal fs of the USB to IS device before the I2S to PCM board should be 32 fs to allow the reads of 192 Khz max materials (192x32=6144 < 6400 Khz)
- the external MCLK to feed this board has to be 192 khz x 128 minimum = 24.576 Mhz)
- But as the max inpt speed of the TDA1541 is 6.4 Mhz wee need a 4x divider between the MCLK crystal and the TDA lock input (assuming the I2S to PCM Bclk output can be not connect-floating-)
Dividers are not the best way between a MCLK and a Dac chip but are hard to avoid ! In the case we would feed the dac chip without divider i.e. with a 6.144 crystal so the maximal material readable could be 48 Khz!
So the DIYHINK as to be reprogrammed as it is fixed at bclk of 128 fs. It means the buy of the ad hoc device as it is not provided from the USB plug of the board.
If the DIYHink can slave the I2S to PCM board at 49.x or 51.x Mhz with a good uf.l link, it means also than the MClK of the DAC chip is supplied by the DIYHINK (and the farer the XO...).
Amareno seems ideal but has to be slaved for better result so your external MCLK would allow 3 output (Dac chip, I2S to PCM board, USB to I2S board) : no uf.l input connector for the MCLK (a no go for me!); But its slower crystals 22.X and 24X is a better way to go for our needs of slow speed.
No I2S uf.l output connectors but notice than the I2S to PCM board has no input uf.l connectors (jut for outputs). I assume the noise is not an issue for it as initialy it was maid to match before it with the Ian's FIFO and after it with a Ian's Isolator after it. Bur UF.L input connectors should not be a lux on it !
In this case Wave-IO should have been the ideal candidate with its uf.l output connectors... but without the I2S to PCM board !
No ideal World= trade off but I'm not able to understand why the matching impedance between the I2S to USB and the I2S to PCM should be less important than the output of the last (uf.l is an option here but possible on the I2S to PCM board).
I surmise Ian could accept a redesign of the input for more versatility as he maid for the output.
Because some USB to I2S devices of the market have not a ideal I2S output (without GS.GS.GS arrengement where G is Gnd and S is Signal) or a mirror plug in relation to the I2S to PCM input: the connection between it and the I2S to PCM could allow mostly a bad connection quality (standalone pin to pin cable needed = bad Gnd, bad screening and signals isolation).
I surmise the noise or a bad EMC to be worse than a jitter problem, so as we have many pcbs, quality of the links stay a priority.
So : a slaved Amareno without Ian's I2S to PCM input connectors modification could be a trade off if your own MCLK board should have 3 outputs ! Amareno provide both 22.x or 24.x Mhz XO with 32 fs Bclk : in a MCLK scenario it could be interresting to suppress the external MCLK... but zero uf.l connectors on it- a MCLK output without uf.l nowadays ?!
Or a MCLK from the first USB to I2S device the only second solution with the good NDK crystals of the DIYHINK or Wave-IO boards (second win because output uf.l connectors embeded... if i2S to PCM board could be improved ot the device used alone (no simultanous mode).
Maybe I'm wrong with these storie of speed frequencies and connectors! Inputs are welcome...
I try to understand how a Master clock could be run with both the Distinctive core Board and the I2S to PCM board.
fs. The max input fhz clock input allowed by the TDA1541 is 6400 Khz (6.4 Mhz)
According to the I2S to PCM RTFM, because of the input size of the input Bclk limited at 32 fs or 64 fs and the MCLK fs input at 128 fs minimum:
- The ideal fs of the USB to IS device before the I2S to PCM board should be 32 fs to allow the reads of 192 Khz max materials (192x32=6144 < 6400 Khz)
- the external MCLK to feed this board has to be 192 khz x 128 minimum = 24.576 Mhz)
- But as the max inpt speed of the TDA1541 is 6.4 Mhz wee need a 4x divider between the MCLK crystal and the TDA lock input (assuming the I2S to PCM Bclk output can be not connect-floating-)
Dividers are not the best way between a MCLK and a Dac chip but are hard to avoid ! In the case we would feed the dac chip without divider i.e. with a 6.144 crystal so the maximal material readable could be 48 Khz!
So the DIYHINK as to be reprogrammed as it is fixed at bclk of 128 fs. It means the buy of the ad hoc device as it is not provided from the USB plug of the board.
If the DIYHink can slave the I2S to PCM board at 49.x or 51.x Mhz with a good uf.l link, it means also than the MClK of the DAC chip is supplied by the DIYHINK (and the farer the XO...).
Amareno seems ideal but has to be slaved for better result so your external MCLK would allow 3 output (Dac chip, I2S to PCM board, USB to I2S board) : no uf.l input connector for the MCLK (a no go for me!); But its slower crystals 22.X and 24X is a better way to go for our needs of slow speed.
No I2S uf.l output connectors but notice than the I2S to PCM board has no input uf.l connectors (jut for outputs). I assume the noise is not an issue for it as initialy it was maid to match before it with the Ian's FIFO and after it with a Ian's Isolator after it. Bur UF.L input connectors should not be a lux on it !
In this case Wave-IO should have been the ideal candidate with its uf.l output connectors... but without the I2S to PCM board !
No ideal World= trade off but I'm not able to understand why the matching impedance between the I2S to USB and the I2S to PCM should be less important than the output of the last (uf.l is an option here but possible on the I2S to PCM board).
I surmise Ian could accept a redesign of the input for more versatility as he maid for the output.
Because some USB to I2S devices of the market have not a ideal I2S output (without GS.GS.GS arrengement where G is Gnd and S is Signal) or a mirror plug in relation to the I2S to PCM input: the connection between it and the I2S to PCM could allow mostly a bad connection quality (standalone pin to pin cable needed = bad Gnd, bad screening and signals isolation).
I surmise the noise or a bad EMC to be worse than a jitter problem, so as we have many pcbs, quality of the links stay a priority.
So : a slaved Amareno without Ian's I2S to PCM input connectors modification could be a trade off if your own MCLK board should have 3 outputs ! Amareno provide both 22.x or 24.x Mhz XO with 32 fs Bclk : in a MCLK scenario it could be interresting to suppress the external MCLK... but zero uf.l connectors on it- a MCLK output without uf.l nowadays ?!
Or a MCLK from the first USB to I2S device the only second solution with the good NDK crystals of the DIYHINK or Wave-IO boards (second win because output uf.l connectors embeded... if i2S to PCM board could be improved ot the device used alone (no simultanous mode).
Maybe I'm wrong with these storie of speed frequencies and connectors! Inputs are welcome...
Reading the Wave I/O manual I see than uf.l are just for test because no isolated ! The main I2S output (isolated) connector is not uf.l friendly.
Also forget this one :to change a little, here a Spidf to I2S :
Sure Electronics' webstore WM8804 S/PDIF TOSLINK to IIS Converter I2S Codec Project integration DIY
Also forget this one :to change a little, here a Spidf to I2S :
Sure Electronics' webstore WM8804 S/PDIF TOSLINK to IIS Converter I2S Codec Project integration DIY
For people with pc but spidf input a good bet should be the IFI Nano with AMR technologies : just for the USB to SPIDF conversion with AMR zero jitter technology !
Lipo battery as DC stoper, USB to SPIDF (192 khz max as the spidf datasheet allow), Aluminium shielded EMC enclosure, good crystal, volume not in the signal path.
PCM & DSD natives. Output is RCA and not 75 ohms BNC as a mass market product.
Great Q/P to avoid all those kits and noisy ps at 180 dollars/euros !
I beginn to think about it to replace my squeezeboxduets with a Cubitruck nano pc as logitech media and DNLA media server with usb output + Inano for jittery firewall.
Maybe one problem : we need here an Spidf to I2S for the final DAC :
-multiplexing of clocks and datas in frequencies and time domain with spidf create more jitter. that's why every body talk about I2S or simultanous mode to split the signals the more possible on their own wire and insulation.
- Impedance matching with a 50 ohms RCAs is not the 75 ohms spidf wire coaxial impedance and protocol !
But here we talk about too choose in relation to a budget also, so if not DIY this device has to be listred IMHO.
With the USB and the IanCanada I2S to PCM (option I choosed for the jitter reduction simultanous mode allows and superior subjective SQ testimonied with simultanous mode : Audial with P. Rodgic uses it for years !) the DIYink USB to I2S with output clock uf.l to feed the PCM board seems to be the better option if you have not the money like me to go to the complete IanCanada line !
A better theoric option should be a synchronous (slaved) USB to I2S board (with or without I2S to PCM, but I2S to PCM advised: your money your choice) with a masterclock near the TDA1541 as Andrea Mori fellow is going to launch or any other masterclock but here we have to remind than :
- I2S to PCM need a 128 fs for Masterclock minimum and less or equal 64 fs to BCLK
- clocks divider create some jitter : it's a trade off
- the Master clock allow to feed the dac chip + the slaved synchronous USB to I2S (like the Amareno... which is too much expensive IHMO nowadays!) and also the I2s TO pcm board if you choose it (so 3 clocks outputs in this case)
- My understanding is Amareno is the only USB to I2S which can be slaved (I do an error ? remember I'm a beginner and thread is for beginners) and has no uf.l output conector... so the quality of the input clock could be bad and a trade off also !
Lipo battery as DC stoper, USB to SPIDF (192 khz max as the spidf datasheet allow), Aluminium shielded EMC enclosure, good crystal, volume not in the signal path.
PCM & DSD natives. Output is RCA and not 75 ohms BNC as a mass market product.
Great Q/P to avoid all those kits and noisy ps at 180 dollars/euros !
I beginn to think about it to replace my squeezeboxduets with a Cubitruck nano pc as logitech media and DNLA media server with usb output + Inano for jittery firewall.
Maybe one problem : we need here an Spidf to I2S for the final DAC :
-multiplexing of clocks and datas in frequencies and time domain with spidf create more jitter. that's why every body talk about I2S or simultanous mode to split the signals the more possible on their own wire and insulation.
- Impedance matching with a 50 ohms RCAs is not the 75 ohms spidf wire coaxial impedance and protocol !
But here we talk about too choose in relation to a budget also, so if not DIY this device has to be listred IMHO.
With the USB and the IanCanada I2S to PCM (option I choosed for the jitter reduction simultanous mode allows and superior subjective SQ testimonied with simultanous mode : Audial with P. Rodgic uses it for years !) the DIYink USB to I2S with output clock uf.l to feed the PCM board seems to be the better option if you have not the money like me to go to the complete IanCanada line !
A better theoric option should be a synchronous (slaved) USB to I2S board (with or without I2S to PCM, but I2S to PCM advised: your money your choice) with a masterclock near the TDA1541 as Andrea Mori fellow is going to launch or any other masterclock but here we have to remind than :
- I2S to PCM need a 128 fs for Masterclock minimum and less or equal 64 fs to BCLK
- clocks divider create some jitter : it's a trade off
- the Master clock allow to feed the dac chip + the slaved synchronous USB to I2S (like the Amareno... which is too much expensive IHMO nowadays!) and also the I2s TO pcm board if you choose it (so 3 clocks outputs in this case)
- My understanding is Amareno is the only USB to I2S which can be slaved (I do an error ? remember I'm a beginner and thread is for beginners) and has no uf.l output conector... so the quality of the input clock could be bad and a trade off also !
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Hi,
About an input of Painkiller fellow in an another thread about AD1862 dac chip (two mono Dacs) : after yesterday re reading him thread, this one seems interessant both for the price and maybe the silmutanous mode possibility (to be checked for the TDA1541 as I don' know ! ) I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio
If yes : no needs of I2S to PCM additional boards and the icing on the cake is that this USB module can be clock mastered (but certainly not lower than 45.x because the Cmos?!)
One default is the outputs connector not arranged in GSGSGSGSGS , as no gnd vias near the input clock pin !
But certainly woerth its price with the ultimate possibility to kust have one Masterclock with two output (dac chip itself and this little board)... what a pity it doesn't have an uf.l plug for that ! Even if uf.l wires are fragile after 2 or three unplugs...
About an input of Painkiller fellow in an another thread about AD1862 dac chip (two mono Dacs) : after yesterday re reading him thread, this one seems interessant both for the price and maybe the silmutanous mode possibility (to be checked for the TDA1541 as I don' know ! ) I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio
If yes : no needs of I2S to PCM additional boards and the icing on the cake is that this USB module can be clock mastered (but certainly not lower than 45.x because the Cmos?!)
One default is the outputs connector not arranged in GSGSGSGSGS , as no gnd vias near the input clock pin !
But certainly woerth its price with the ultimate possibility to kust have one Masterclock with two output (dac chip itself and this little board)... what a pity it doesn't have an uf.l plug for that ! Even if uf.l wires are fragile after 2 or three unplugs...
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