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CS8412 to EIAJ or I2S
CS8412 to EIAJ or I2S
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Old 19th December 2013, 12:27 AM   #21
abraxalito is offline abraxalito  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowman View Post
I usually use R2R as "generic" name for classic multibit ladder architectures.
Not all multibit DACs are ladder architecture. R2R refers to ladder.

Quote:
But R2R seems only to be specifically mentioned in datasheets for DACs like PCM1704, etc.
That's a classic example of an R2R.

Quote:
Also, MSB Tech, Mother-of-Tone, HyperPhysics seem to limit discussion of DACs arch. to
R2R/ladder, D-S, and "summing amplifier".
Last time I looked at Charles' (Mother of Tone) site, he wasn't clear about the difference between R2R and multibit so a lot of confusion exists for sure.

Quote:
In an earlier DIY topical discussion, you also refereed to another type (arch.), segmented current sources (with or w/o DEM), putatively used in TDA1541
Is this what TDA1543 and TDA1545 use, too?
For sure with 1545, but its not totally clear with 1543. Probably the 'passive divider' in the latter is done with transistors but no DEM (hence use of 'passive') rather than 'passive' referring to passive components (resistors).

Quote:
Also, is there a White Paper on Philips use of segmented current sources? It does not seem to be mentioned all that often in datasheets, etc.
There's a paper about the internal design of TDA1541A and specifically dynamic element matching, written by Rudy van de Plassche. Google's your friend.

Incidentally what are the flaws you see with CD?
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Old 19th December 2013, 07:29 PM   #22
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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Default Double Crown TDA1541a

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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Incidentally what are the flaws you see with CD?
Look at the mess I made a few years ago.. I call it the "Magnavox Mess."

...Double Crown TDA1541a...with interchangeable PMD100 or SAA7220B ...
in a Magnavox CD-650 + external PSU project...
Click the image to open in full size.
left: External PS
center: heavily modified CD-650
right: DIY headphone amp; Sennheiser HD-650


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
External BALANCED-pwr PSU: Three DIN V_dc out (two on front; one rear). 120VAC (balanced pwr out); Corcom EMI/EMF filter; Inrush current suppression (soft start)

Click the image to open in full size.
Philips (Magnavox) CD-650 (1986 model); Kwack clock; DEM reclocking for TDA1541A; inter-IC re-clocking; double-Flea (far upper right) for certain logic ckts. Output is Prometheus/Pass design.

And then, about a year ago, I bypassed the CDM (transport) and added I2S-fed QLS-HiFI QA-350 wav device ... and sonics improved quite significantly ...
CDs/CDPs (like vinyl) are way too labor-intensive, high-maint. ... and I miss week-long playlists.

The project above was a one-time/non-serious thing ...proof-of-concept/personal challenge/yada-yada ... dumbed-down stuff that a sh*t-plumber could solder up on weekends, or when plunge jobs were slow. Now, all I really need -- DIY or ready-made-from China -- is portable gear that feeds off a Tablet or iPhone.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
BTW: Also experimented with some recent Musical Fidelity DACs, Asus Xonar XT soundcard, etc. Believe it or not, 95% of my day-to-day listening is via sub-optimal PC audio or iPod Touch. ALL my listening is headphones/IEMs-only. Haven't used loudspeakers in years!
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Last edited by hollowman; 19th December 2013 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 23rd December 2013, 07:54 PM   #23
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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Looking at the timing diag. in the TDA1545A datasheet (fig. 6), it is shown that MSB (I assume this is bit #1 of the usual 1 [MSB] to 16 [LSB]), is kept ON for several clock cycles before shifting to bits 2-16.

Why did EIAJ chose this "strategy"?
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Old 24th December 2013, 01:40 AM   #24
abraxalito is offline abraxalito  United Kingdom
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Actually I think that's just a strange representation by Philips rather than anything from EIAJ. In my understanding the bits to the left of the 'real' MSB are all don't care. They'll get ignored. Everything becomes much simpler conceptually with a 32fs clock.
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Old 24th December 2013, 05:01 AM   #25
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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Default EIAJ advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Actually I think that's just a strange representation by Philips rather than anything from EIAJ. In my understanding the bits to the left of the 'real' MSB are all don't care. They'll get ignored. Everything becomes much simpler conceptually with a 32fs clock.
Why did Japan go non-standard here?
As a transmission format, I wonder if EIAJ has certain advantages -- maybe when used concomitantly within "continuous calibration" architecture?
The TDA1545A, with its EIAJ input, has a kind of cult following. However, TDA1545A's near-twin brother TDA1387T (same continuous calibration architecture as 1545A) almost gets no mention -- it is I2S.
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Last edited by hollowman; 24th December 2013 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 24th December 2013, 05:12 AM   #26
abraxalito is offline abraxalito  United Kingdom
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Why do you call EIAJ 'non-standard' ? Just because it differs from I2S? In which case what makes I2S 'standard' ?

I do designs with both TDA1387 and TDA1545A. I do prefer the 1545A for a couple of reasons - it draws about half the power of the 1387 and it can deliver double the current. If only the 1545 (original I2S version) was still available, that'd be the best of both worlds. TDA1387's wider output voltage compliance doesn't convey any advantages to me as I like a balanced architecture.
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Old 24th December 2013, 10:12 AM   #27
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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The TDA1545A is a good, lil' DAC. Only wish there was a simpler way to convert I2S to EIAJ.
I still haven't figured out why I can't get that two-chip ckt to work.
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Old 24th December 2013, 10:32 AM   #28
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Its pretty straightforward to see why that circuit can't work - the original premise is incorrect. He says 'invert WS and delay the data by 7 clocks'. Well the first bit's right but the second is obviously wrong - within a 32 bit field, the difference between left justified (I2S) and right justified (EIAJ) will be 16 bit times. Subtract one for I2S's 1 bit advanced WS and you need 15 bit time adjustment. Add on another 8bit register to accomplish that and it might just fly.
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Old 24th December 2013, 11:42 AM   #29
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Default Universal shifter

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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Add on another 8bit register to accomplish that and it might just fly.
You lost me ... are you saying a 3-chip design might work?

The one in your Blog uses more than that as does the WORKING -- but messy -- "Universal Shifter" ckt I'm using:
(note that only DATA line is shifted, seven times. BCK and WS are fed to DACs BCK and WS pins unchanged).

Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by hollowman; 24th December 2013 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 24th December 2013, 12:04 PM   #30
abraxalito is offline abraxalito  United Kingdom
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The circuit on my blog isn't intended to do I2S to EIAJ - it just happens that such a conversion becomes almost trivial when the frame size is 16bits. Reduction of the frame size to 16bits is the purpose of my circuit.

Yes I reckon a 3 chip solution has to be worth a shot. Doing it with ALS374 latches though is messy because of having to wire so many ins to outs. Why not just use shift regs? I use HC595s because they're dirt-cheap here but they have another internal register which makes the circuit a little more difficult to design. 74HC164s would be a better choice.
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