Dacmagic upgrades

Hi enjoying the posts on the forum, have been searching possible mods for my dacmagic have completed a suggested mod on headfi which seemed to work quite well by bypassing and bridging caps inside dacmagic.
This is about my comfort level and quite easy to do, the mod is shown herehttp://www.head-fi.org/t/430326/cambridge-dacmagic-anyone-thread-ii/495
Unfortunately cant read schematics, I only understand on a very , very basic level.
I was looking into the possibility of replacing opamps which the dacmagic seems to have six.
I have read about the upgrade to 4 x LM4562MA with the remaining two upgrading to burson opamps.
Firstly do you consider this to be a worthwhile upgrade?
Secondly should I be considering other upgrades? Capacitors and such.
If anyone has done this with a dacmagic please supply a list of capacitors values etc.
To be honest the level of soldering required looks quite daunting and I may use someone else with more expertise than me.
All I'm looking for at the moment is advice on the possible sonic results and obviously because of my absolute inability to tell one end of a circuit board from another that the attached file is correct in assuming the positions of the opamps.:eek:
 

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Swapping the op-amps will make it sound different. but probably only because the circuit won't be set-up optimally for the new ones you substitute in place of the old ones.

The Burson op-amps are no better than anything else and you'll not be able to fit them in the box without a real struggle.

The 6 black electrolytic caps in the red box are already bypassed with the red Wima caps sat next to them. I would suggest that whoever posted this on headfi probably doesn't really know their '**** from their elbow'.

The random swapping of components for other seldom yields an improvement, but if you are predisposed to think that 'different' equals 'better' then you might be satisfied with the monster you'll end up creating.

The best advice would be to start reading books on electronics. Start with some simple projects, a dac is a very complicated and sensitive ;piece of equipment, you will find more early success elsewhere.

Best of luck,
 
Many thanks for your input.
Do realise Burson would be tight fit.
Although reffering to the mod as suggested on Headfi , IMHO has improved the sound!
As a person with no experience whatsoever I was looking to gain some guidance on improvements that can be made.
I'm led to believe that the burson opamp is one of the most significant upgrades you could make - maybe just hype but then again that's why i'm here.
Any suggestions are always welcome but please try and give me something to work with not read some electronics books!!
I'm starting as anyone does by trying to learn from more experienced members.
 
Thanks Ekidnah, read the link with interest.
However as a novice whilst the info was valuable it was somewhat over my head.
The main premise seems to be as SQ225917 stated above there's more to it than randomly swapping bits, but surely someone here can give an idea of probably the best way to go in terms of upgrading various components - I'm sure someone has dabbled with this Dac and can provide pointers on what sounded good to them and provided a stable, quantifiable difference, without the jargon and electronics lectures which after.all are frankly over my head.
 
I'm sure someone has dabbled with this Dac and can provide pointers on what sounded good to them and provided a stable, quantifiable difference, without the jargon and electronics lectures which after.all are frankly over my head.
I'm sure there is a thread about dac magic mods, but as you have been already told, all "improvements in sound" are due to placebo effect and/or spectator bias... unless you will truly mess the things.
 
So are we to assume that Cambridge in their wisdom somehow hit the holy grail with this DAC and there are no options for upgrading the components. That to me seems highly improbable!! As with everything the DAC is built to a very stringent cost versus sound approach.
Are all upgrades placebo - that really negates the usefulness of this whole forum.
In effect it would assume that everyone here is merrily building and modding units for actually no gain whatsoever.
Do switching to higher quality caps make a difference - I'm led to believe YES
Does opamp switching make a conceivable difference - Again i'm led to believe yes
Does using balanced outputs on this device work better - Yes
Do I need to go on??
I'm not asking for the moon on a stick just a reasonable starting point for experimentation.
I've owned the DAC for two years it didn't cost a fortune so i'm quite happy to mess with it.
 
So are we to assume that Cambridge in their wisdom somehow hit the holy grail with this DAC and there are no options for upgrading the components. That to me seems highly improbable!!

Quite likely. Most gains in actual performance for the vast majority of hifi gear can be gotten only by rethinking basic topology, not merely swapping components and coming to sweeping conclusions based on no controlled listening or measurement.

Are all upgrades placebo - that really negates the usefulness of this whole forum.

Many are, maybe most. But if people have fun and perhaps learn something in the process, that seems useful, at least to me. Especially the "fun" part.
 
Then I am all at sea lost in a world of electronics boffins who want me to re invent the wheel with no fundamental grasp of electronics and the crazies who randomly swap components without due care and attention - and somehow promise listening Narvanah!!
I must be one of the crazies coz I still think there is more to be had from this machine with subtle upgrading.
 
Then I am all at sea lost in a world of electronics boffins who want me to re invent the wheel with no fundamental grasp of electronics and the crazies who randomly swap components without due care and attention - and somehow promise listening Narvanah!!

That sums it up nicely.

A more rational approach is to determine what specific performance attribute needs to be upgraded, benchmark original performance, determine the root cause of the performance deficiency, then target your efforts toward resolving the issue. Validate your work versus the benchmark via measurement and/or controlled (ears-only) listening.
 
Do switching to higher quality caps make a difference - I'm led to believe YES
It probably makes a difference, but not an audible one unless you change its value.

Does opamp switching make a conceivable difference - Again i'm led to believe yes
It probably makes a difference, but not an audible one unless you pick the wrong OA for that circuit.

Does using balanced outputs on this device work better - Yes
Yes, it probably will work "better" if you have noise problems.

I'm not asking for the moon on a stick just a reasonable starting point for experimentation.
Start as Mr. SY has pointed you.
 
yes, your first paragraph has it pretty well summed up, but for some details.

what you link, could not be described as subtle, in any sense of the word. the burson opamps arent even 'all that' in the best of circumstances, let alone grafted into a circuit they werent designed for, for no good reason. the orgies of massively paralleled caps can only be described as … quaint… as bypass caps, the caps used are almost completely useless, but they are a pretty green colour.

nobody is urging you to reinvent the wheel, we are suggesting its better you leave it alone and pick your battles. the only really worthwhile/value improvements made to reasonable and reasonably priced commercial designs, are ones that involve analysing and rethinking the topology to something better with careful consideration and knowledge of the operation of the circuit. installing trinkets into a reasonable design, based on dubious second hand subjective reports, posted by people who do not seem to understand the functions of the parts they are replacing all that well, is not the way forward. that clock install linked above is an EMC nightmare.

To be frank and I do not mean this in a mean-spirited way, you seem to strongly believe you can make an improvement by adding parts you dont understand, to a dac you dont understand, in a way you dont understand; using skills you havent yet mastered? if you are honest with yourself, does that really sound like the path to improvement to you?

basically if you arent planning on spending considerable time getting to know the hobby and the journey and learning isnt at least as as important as the outcome, then you will not get anything but possible 'difference' and you will spend a good deal of money and time getting there. that difference in this case, could easily be distortion

you have been given good advice here, that is all pretty consistent and nobody replying so far is inexperienced, but perhaps you dont want to hear it and the mod guru over at head-fi will spout something about hearing deeper into the music and we wouldnt understand, soulless meter readers need to be told they enjoy music etc. head-fi has some decent members, you may recognise my username from there too, but the majority (maybe a bit harsh, but a fair bit, there are certainly exceptions) of DIY there is of this type, not so much circuit analysis going on. thats cool it has its place, many start that way, but it is not the fast track to nirvana you have been promised.
 
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As a newbie, this post has been highly valuable. I was about to try modding my DacMagic 100 but thanks to the good advice here, I'm glad I haven't.

Personally, I'm not knowledgeable enough to ignore experts who are telling me not to do something unless you are knowledgeable enough.

But that's just me.
 
interesting conversation, and point of view.

I have successfully modified (changed components for ones that in my view sound better, and changed them to ones that don't and iterated to a preferable solution) in old valve amplifiers, but not digital equipment.

I had intended looking at my old DacMagic sometime, but am intrigued to understand if somehow this type of products is different and not sensitive to component quality. Many manufacturers offer the same product with improved (price and SQ) components for IMO good reason, they can cost more and can sound better (- but not always.)

In my experience Caps, resistors and cables all sound different - the amount of differences of course varies on what and where. The objective I follow is to improve the system sound overall, and to my ears and also others who have listened to these changes this is very possible, and sometimes surprisingly dramatic.

BUT it takes a lot of time and effort, you will make mistakes, and you will make changes that are actually worse than when you started, BUT if you are prepared to accept this you can make considerable improvements overall if you persevere and have the time and money (which is always more than you predict)