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Old 22nd January 2013, 05:49 AM   #41
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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most PCM actually recorded as DSD? lol NONE of the mastering plugins, hardware or software mixers, EQ, etc etc work on 1 bit files, there are only a few very esoteric DSD recorders/ADCs and you say all pro recordings are done that way? seems like youve drunk someones coolaid. there is not a single standard ADC chip on the market that records in DSD; there are a couple of proprietary discrete solutions.

Korg tried, doesnt seem to have gained much momentum, I only see them drastically reduced for sale on ebay. but then you cant do anything with the files without conversion.

it may get a look in when/if multibit DSD is realised on something more than a hardcore diyers bench. at that point I will take another look, as it is, doesnt do anything for me

Last edited by qusp; 22nd January 2013 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 06:10 AM   #42
kad is offline kad  Canada
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Almost..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kad View Post
It utilizes 32-bit DSP (Digital Signal Processing).
Only 32 bit? For DSP you do need to use a much higher bit depth to avoid rounding and accumulation errors (precisely the cumulative errors you pointed out with the analog signal). That's why most DSP's are 48, 64 or even more bits - but the output is still only 24 or 16.
Could you be mistaken?

Or perhaps I'm just misunderstanding your point? Because the statement you made makes no sense to me?

There are 48-bit and 64-bit integer calculations related to mathematics, which have absolutely nothing to do with the quantization bit depth.
http://www.jamminpower.com/PDF/48-bit%20Audio.pdf
Click the image to open in full size.

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Last edited by kad; 22nd January 2013 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 06:26 AM   #43
kad is offline kad  Canada
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Done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Enjoy the cool-aid!
Thank you! I am enjoying it; and also the sweet music to my ears! Likewise, I wish you the same.

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Old 22nd January 2013, 06:32 AM   #44
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlliumPorrum View Post
Once again, this thread is NOT about:
- technical issues, measurements or SNR´s
I will respect your wishes and not respond to the recent ramblings, especially as the poster actually included pointers to documents proving my points.

Now, should I include half a page of irrelevant quotes?

Last edited by Julf; 22nd January 2013 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 06:53 AM   #45
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post

Now, should I include half a page of irrelevant quotes?
to remain in keeping with the current trend, it would seem so...
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Old 22nd January 2013, 07:40 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephensank View Post
My suggestion would be a Monarchy 24 dac, with a fair amount of upgrading/alteration.
Interesting option! Does anyone have experience on Monarchy vs. MHDT Havana??
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Old 23rd January 2013, 02:32 AM   #47
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I have heard & upgraded the MHDT dac that uses one PCM56P-K per channel, single dual triode tube for output and has spdif & usb inputs, can't quite recall the model, and it sounded very, very good for what it is. However, the designer, in all of his models, AFAIK, uses the opamp built in to the dac chip for i/v, and just uses the tube as a buffer for output drive. The Monarchy is far better, even in stock form(at least with Dutch Amperex 6DJ8 tubes & a 47k-50k preamp input Z), using no opamps at all, just the i/v resistor and srpp tube stage after each dac chip's current out. The MHDT sounds congested by comparison, and overall not nearly as refined & layered.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 03:51 AM   #48
kad is offline kad  Canada
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It's only been three days since I joined diyAudio, and I'm already discovering the trolls here. I suppose it is a manifestation of the Universal 80/20 rule?

Some people just criticizing others, without providing any substance, facts, or information. Merely their petty uneducated opinions based on their own ignorance and prejudice.

They don't even know the difference between a DSP and a DAC... Lol!

Any 32-bit CPU such as used in DSP (Digital Signal Processing) chips can perform 64-bit integer and arithmetic floating point calculations, it is a matter of software/firmware. Heck I even performed 32-bit wide calculations on an 8-bit Zilog Z80 CPU back in the days... The smallest processor I worked on was a 4-bit Hitachi CPU used in a Golf Caddy Calculator to keep track of PAR and scores... The point? Processor bus & address width doesn't limit the mathematical calculations to the level of precision desired, that can be performed with it. Duh!

Yet they even deny the existence of true and cost-effective 32-bit deep DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) (even claim the output is only 16 or 24 bit deep).

Here's the DSP portion used in the Pioneer SC-65, I enjoy so much:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/sprt377/sprt377.pdf
Click the image to open in full size.

Found simply by searching for Digital Core Engine with Texas Instruments Aureus(tm) DSP:
Click the image to open in full size.

For the obtuse: No this isn't the 32-bit DAC. Only the DSP.

What's inside your equipment? Can it decode all the latest codecs? Is it THX certified? Does it support the latest Dolby standards? How about the latest DTS Neo:X? And how does it sound? What about your opinion about looking forward, or backwards? Finally, is it practical and affordable?

Fortunately, there are tons of great technical info buried in this community of audio fanatics.

Since I'm here to share with and learn from others; I'll know who to pay attention to, and who to ignore. Simple algorithm: those who convey true information fall into the preferred group. The rest is mere low-level noise.

Time is the most precious commodity after all. Be efficient!

To those who truly want to learn and help others; Cheers and thank you!

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Old 23rd January 2013, 05:19 AM   #49
kad is offline kad  Canada
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For those like me, new at external DAC's this is an interesting read:
Audiophile Review's Top Five DACs Under $1,000

If I had to experiment with a separate component DAC, this is probably where I'd start:
Q N K T C USB-I2S Module and Analog Board

Personally, I can't stomach this ultra-high-end nonsense (more like ultra-high-priced, only):
Audio Note Kits - L3.1 DAC Kit

$2250 for the signature edition, plus $1000 for the balanced C-core (HiB) output transformers. (Please no offense to those who own those, may you enjoy the fruits of your labour and power to you!). I don't have a problem with the absolute amount of money, just that I prefer to cover more bases, with a finite budget?

Well, I don't really believe in transformers, due to their inherent non-linear characteristics due to magnetic hysteresis. Heck, maybe it is the output transformer sound some like? To each his own they say.

On the topic of high quality transformers, it appears to me that for audio fidelity they probably should be made from a toroidal form factor, so as to minimize magnetic losses caused by rectangular laminates. At every 90 degrees corner, there will be a magnetic flux escaping. And also must be thoroughly shielded from external EMF radiations. The better units will use mu-metal construction methods?

A simple visual inspection of the transformer might divulge if it is more appropriate for audio? A rectangular transformer is probably not as good. A cylindrical one would be better?

Also this is enlightening reading concerning Answers to common questions about audio transformers
Click the image to open in full size.

Also if I had to source some transformers, these people look interesting:
E A Sowter Ltd SOWTER TRANSFORMERS

Yes there is a lot of technical jargon. But this is a technical community focused on DIY after all.


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Last edited by kad; 23rd January 2013 at 05:26 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 23rd January 2013, 05:20 AM   #50
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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I think it is you producing a huge amount of noise with the object to be 'right', julf, myself, nor ANYONE mentioned 48bit or 64bit dacs being needed. they do not even exist in the audio domain afaik. there is some argument whether 32, 48 or 64bit floating point is preferred over 32,48-64bit integer calculations. the only time 32bit width is used for stereo dacs is PCM; most times only 16 or 24bit is used in the dac, with the rest padded with zeros, depending on i2s/PCM, left/right justified format.

your post that julf replied to, did not specify whether you were talking about the DSP chip bit depth, or the DSP calculation depth. Julf obviously read it as meaning the DSP process bit depth, not the processor and that leads you to go on a massive off topic rant?

with regard to the quality of members, erm what pray-tell does your pages full of noise have to do with the subject? it only serves to bolster your own ego. for me, its pretty easy to judge the quality of the reply by the number of quotes from famous people in the tag line, leveraged to elevate the posters own intelligence, or contrast with a lack thereof

for me, I tend to form an opinion of new posters as well.... you made that job rather easy for me.

Last edited by qusp; 23rd January 2013 at 05:28 AM.
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