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Old 25th January 2013, 01:45 PM   #91
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by cotdt View Post
Anyone with experience in this hobby should have their biases at this point.
Sure - but it would perhaps have been better for you to state that you don't like their choice in tubes, rather than use the rather broad "cheap Chinese" paintbrush?

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And Julf, there is no need to be sarcastic.
My apologies - but it is hard not to get both cynical and sarcastic when faced with all the audiophile superstition. In this case, you are dismissing gear based on cheap price and a choice of tubes that is not to your liking, without neither having heard the product or seen the schematics. As I pointed out, country of origin is no differentiator these days, when "made in <country>" seems to mean "some final assembly done in <country>".

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I personally don't use tube output stages, but have heard them, and I know that if done right, they have a lot of potential. One of which is a wider ability to tune the sound than an SS stage with the ability to use certain simple topologies.
For tune-ability, I would say a decent DSP gives a lot more potential...
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Old 25th January 2013, 01:51 PM   #92
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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For tune-ability, I would say a decent DSP gives a lot more potential...
It's not easy nor cheap to build a box that can simulate your choice of output impedance nor simulate the harmonics profile of an amplifier. Are you going to develop such a product?
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Old 25th January 2013, 01:59 PM   #93
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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It's not easy nor cheap to build a box that can simulate your choice of output impedance nor simulate the harmonics profile of an amplifier. Are you going to develop such a product?
I have no need for such a product, as my components all have a low enough output impedance, and for "harmonic profiling" most off-the-shelf DSP units are more than enough. Anyway, I am into diy audio, not products.
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Old 25th January 2013, 02:10 PM   #94
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
I have no need for such a product, as my components all have a low enough output impedance, and for "harmonic profiling" most off-the-shelf DSP units are more than enough. Anyway, I am into diy audio, not products.
What off the shelf DSP products can selectively add harmonics?

Low output impedance is not what everyone wants. Some like low, some like mid, some like high. Maybe your preference is served by an nCore, but others may not think highly of such an amp, and prefer a tube amp.

Also, how do you know that your nCores are not colored? There are just too many factors. In a live setting, with room reflections and longer travel for the sound waves, the harmonics are higher than what gets to the microphone. How is one to say that lower harmonics is always more realistic reproduction of the live event?
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Old 25th January 2013, 02:23 PM   #95
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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What off the shelf DSP products can selectively add harmonics?
Any that allow a non-linear transfer function.

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Low output impedance is not what everyone wants. Some like low, some like mid, some like high. Maybe your preference is served by an nCore, but others may not think highly of such an amp, and prefer a tube amp.
But my point is that the effect of the higher impedance can be emulated with a DSP.

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Also, how do you know that your nCores are not colored?
A combination of measurement data and double-blind ABX listening.

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How is one to say that lower harmonics is always more realistic reproduction of the live event?
Ah, that question is probably as old as "hi-fi", if not older. I guess the standard answer is that it is generally best to assume that the recording, as-is, is the closest approximation we have to how the artist or sound engineer intended it to sound, and avoid colouring or distorting it in any way.
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Old 25th January 2013, 02:37 PM   #96
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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Julf, can you give a link to a DSP product that does this (higher output impedance emulation, adding harmonics)? Something that can either work standalone (hardware) or interface with the operating system (if this was easy to do, I would have programmed it myself).
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Old 25th January 2013, 02:41 PM   #97
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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I suppose next we'll be wanting to simulate rail sag like with guitar effects processors?
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Old 25th January 2013, 02:48 PM   #98
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My point is, if the people here would rather argue about the OP's desire to use tubes in the DAC, then they should propose a better solution. They propose DSP instead of tubes. If that's viable solution, then good. If not, then why question the OP's desire to have tubes in his DAC? Just to feel superior because they themselves prefer opamps that measure better?
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Old 25th January 2013, 02:49 PM   #99
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Julf, can you give a link to a DSP product that does this (higher output impedance emulation, adding harmonics)? Something that can either work standalone (hardware) or interface with the operating system (if this was easy to do, I would have programmed it myself).
As I wrote, adding harmonics is simply done with a non-linear transform. No fancy processing needed, any DSP can do it. The guitar fuzz/distortion pedal is the simplest example. The effect of output impedance is mostly a simple frequency deviation, but depending on your speaker, the effect of a lower damping factor can be analyzed and replicated - again, the DSP part is not demanding.
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Old 25th January 2013, 02:51 PM   #100
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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My point is, if the people here would rather argue about the OP's desire to use tubes in the DAC, then they should propose a better solution. They propose DSP instead of tubes. If that's viable solution, then good. If not, then why question the OP's desire to have tubes in his DAC? Just to feel superior because they themselves prefer opamps that measure better?
I was not opposed to the OP using tubes. I proposed a solution where he/she could add a tube buffer without having to be constrained to DACs with built-in tube buffers. Am I the only one feeling we are going around in circles here...
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