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Old 12th January 2013, 04:03 PM   #81
n0vtz is offline n0vtz  United States
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Qusp;

Great points. I think 4real was trying to point out the obvious (but not so obvious to some), that what is the point of reclocking if a clock down the line will just reclock that to a value less than what has been gained.

It's also obvious that all the guys at DIY are not going to be doing FIFO, so they can have decreased performance. :0)

The trick here, as you elaborated upon, is how to connect the FIFO to the Dac chip so that this does not occur.

4real and Sy both call into question, how usb/spdif converters reclocking and the SOTM USB PCI board can in many instances get you nowhere. That's a real big deal.

I especially like your idea on the 3.6 reference voltage for the analog stage of the Dacit, didn't know that. I knew I'd have to open up this Dacit eventually. :0)

Jim

Last edited by n0vtz; 12th January 2013 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 12th January 2013, 07:03 PM   #82
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
I wonder what it used to take to make PCBs for DIY or semi-DIY quantities back in the 80s?
Actually, not much. PCBs were single or dual layer and components were hand-solderable.
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Old 12th January 2013, 07:06 PM   #83
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
much philosophy, little engineering.
I think that summarises the difference between the audiophile "industry" (more cottage than industry) and the pro audio and computer industry pretty well.
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Old 13th January 2013, 08:59 AM   #84
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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Jim, you are spot on!
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Old 13th January 2013, 11:09 AM   #85
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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sure, it would be a very valid point, if it were what was actually under discussion....

it has only optional spdif output if you get the spdif module, only i2s by default, its an fifo i2s buffer/reclocker.

since this is in the DIY line level forum I (correctly) assumed a willingness to DIY.

all good, we're all on the same team I think, but best to know what something does before dismissing it yes?

Last edited by qusp; 13th January 2013 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 13th January 2013, 11:20 AM   #86
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
I think that summarises the difference between the audiophile "industry" (more cottage than industry) and the pro audio and computer industry pretty well.
pro-audio is just as capable of making lemons that dont meet their specifications though. some find that following the schematic (but not parts choice or layout) of the application note blindly, constitutes good engineering. which flavour of delusion is worse?
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Old 13th January 2013, 11:23 AM   #87
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
some find that following the schematic (but not parts choice or layout) of the application note blindly, constitutes good engineering. which flavour of delusion is worse?
I think the flavour you describe can be summarized as "little philosophy, little engineering"
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Old 13th January 2013, 11:37 AM   #88
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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that would be fairly accurate

the problem with some pro-audio stuff is often the power supply and grounding, unfortunately not an area often covered by datasheets. inappropriate parts of the circuit sharing power/ground is one of the biggest sins. at the same time, the 'bury it in multitudes of randomly chosen massively parallel bypass caps' audiophile tradition isnt much better and can be worse.
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Old 13th January 2013, 12:13 PM   #89
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
the problem with some pro-audio stuff is often the power supply and grounding, unfortunately not an area often covered by datasheets. inappropriate parts of the circuit sharing power/ground is one of the biggest sins.
Agree - and I guess part of the fault lies with the fact that pro audio people usually get away with it, thanks to low output impedances, balanced connections and differential inputs.

In any case, it's all stuff that is well understood and documented, so the issue is really poor and sloppy engineering, rather than the boundaries of scientific knowledge...

Quote:
at the same time, the 'bury it in multitudes of randomly chosen massively parallel bypass caps' audiophile tradition isnt much better and can be worse.
Especially if it isn't based on proper understanding of the circuits, but is a result of audiophile folklore and superstition.
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Old 13th January 2013, 02:29 PM   #90
n0vtz is offline n0vtz  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
that would be fairly accurate

the problem with some pro-audio stuff is often the power supply and grounding, unfortunately not an area often covered by datasheets. inappropriate parts of the circuit sharing power/ground is one of the biggest sins. at the same time, the 'bury it in multitudes of randomly chosen massively parallel bypass caps' audiophile tradition isnt much better and can be worse.

To be fair to some of these engineering staffs, they are often times dealing with the design of systems that have to integrate into an audio chain, where the the designs of other systems preclude easily establishing appropriate grounds, they have to get "creative".

As a small example. When breaking into the pc usb cable feed to the dacit, and replacing the 5 volts supplied, the name of the game is to replace and "isolate" from the pc. Unfortunately, it was not possible to remove the 5 v. ground from the Dacit back to the pc, and leave the usb cable supplying just data per it's two data lines.

I ended up having to tie my new ps ground to the usb port of the Dacit back to the pc ground to get the system to work. I had to tie the new clean ps ground back to the dirty pc ground. Loops and all kinds of little stratagems to get around this did not work

Jim
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Last edited by n0vtz; 13th January 2013 at 02:42 PM.
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