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Old 11th January 2013, 10:44 AM   #61
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picoseconds you say? how about the $10k femtosecond MSB clock?
That's the one I was trying to recall, thanks. What's a factor of a k between friends in jitter anyway?

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(nice sig BTW. but JMK is defunct as of now which makes for an interesting problem )
That's precisely why I quote it - for the irony factor You're the first to pick up on that - kudos.
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:46 AM   #62
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Haven't seen a trivial (i.e off-the-shelf) way to isolate UAC2 yet but I had heard that ADI was working on a solution. You know of a trivial solution?
Technology: Analog Devices

Off-the-shelf products: Acromag
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:48 AM   #63
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The USB data cables are differential / balanced, so high common mode rejection should be easy to achieve.
I think this is exactly abraxalito's point as it's all dependent on cable construction and properties.

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Ground/power is more problematic - but if you don't use the USB power, but have an independently powered DAC, galvanically isolating the connection is trivial.
this makes me wonder... how come galvanic isolation with high end DACs is not the norm?

speaking of which, did I see some noise measurements at CA?
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:49 AM   #64
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Technology: Analog Devices

Off-the-shelf products: Acromag
Neither of those handles UAC2 - they're full speed [12Mbits] (as opposed to high speed [480Mbits]).
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:54 AM   #65
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this makes me wonder... how come galvanic isolation with high end DACs is not the norm?
Its from my perspective part of the problem because of this currently fashionable word 'galvanic' - meaning its DC isolation. But DC noise isn't the problem, AC is - isolation at RF is called for which is a different matter from isolation at DC.

Regarding CM noise measurements - I also recall seeing some on CA, they originated from ExaDevices I think.
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:59 AM   #66
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
I think this is exactly abraxalito's point as it's all dependent on cable construction and properties.
Common mode rejection is more a function of the USB receiver circuitry, not the cable.

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speaking of which, did I see some noise measurements at CA?
Could be - I have given up on CA except for the section on hi-res downloads.
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Old 11th January 2013, 11:02 AM   #67
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Its from my perspective part of the problem because of this currently fashionable word 'galvanic' - meaning its DC isolation. But DC noise isn't the problem, AC is - isolation at RF is called for which is a different matter from isolation at DC.
That's the beauty of a solution based on magnetics (transformer) - it provides both DC isolation and a low-pass filter.
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Old 11th January 2013, 11:04 AM   #68
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Common mode rejection is more a function of the USB receiver circuitry, not the cable.
True for common-mode signal (carried on the data pair) but not for CM noise which is carried on the ground too.
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Old 11th January 2013, 01:44 PM   #69
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I guess some of us might be sourpusses enough to ask for some kind of proof of the validity of your theory...

Ah, yes, so the people selling the stuff report differences. Right....
Bah-humbug; here we go

Actually, there can be differences in cables, but they are identifiable and measurable. I don't need to elaborate on impedence around here, and reactance is measurable. There are EMR and RFI consideration in some cases. Differences when they are not born in a overly imaginary mind are real.

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Old 11th January 2013, 01:46 PM   #70
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Actually, there can be differences in cables, but they are identifiable and measurable. I don't need to elaborate on impedence around here, and reactance is measurable. There are EMR and RFI consideration in some cases. Differences when they are not born in a overly imaginary mind are real.
I don't think anyone is claiming there aren't differences in cables - I think the disagreement is about the audibility of those differences...
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