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Old 11th January 2013, 07:43 AM   #41
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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looks like you are using too much heat, youve started to burn the flux

the idea of C1 is for it to be as small physically as you can manage, it looks like you have the makings of a resonant peak there. you guys who may not have done much SMD should really grab yourself some separate solder flux.

Last edited by qusp; 11th January 2013 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 11th January 2013, 08:31 AM   #42
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looks like you are using too much heat.
I don't have any way to control this - basic irons only - so it is what it is I'm afraid.

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the idea of C1 is for it to be as small physically as you can manage, it looks like you have the makings of a resonant peak there.
I understand the size affects the properties so it makes sense that it needs to be as physically small as possible, hence the 0603 underneath the 0805, but is an 0805 really going to cause a problem ? Or is it the values I've used ?

Thanks,

Tom
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Old 11th January 2013, 09:57 AM   #43
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For extermer only, (try at your own risk, es9018 can die immediately and 99 lost)
I just accidently feed 5v to to the ES9018 DVCC and AVCC
it's after testing the new AK4399 PCB and reconnect the power supply directly to the next version ES9018 board and forget to change the output voltage back to 3.3.V (AK4399 uses 5V DVCC and AVCC...)
Originally, I think it's the new PCB version boost the sound quality much much more, yes, it noticeable, when first power on!, without notice I feed 5V to the ES9018, hopefully no smoking. after change back to 3.3V, the sound restore back to original.

According to the datasheet,
WARNING: stresses beyond those listed under "absolute maximum ratings" may case permanent damage to the device. These are stress ratings only and functional opteration of the device at these or any other conditions beyond those indicated under "recommended operation conditions" is not implied. Exposure to absolute-maximum-rated conditions for extended periods may affect device reliability
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:05 AM   #44
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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you cant afford $60 temperature controlled iron? proper solder joints on a high speed (preferably) impedance controlled circuit, will improve performance much more than any tweaks of clocks and caps. it is burning because you are taking too long to make the joint and reflowing, adjusting the part position, reflowing again etc, if you add flux and reflow the joint quickly it will help.

as for the caps, arbitrarily choosing the cap values and stacking them roughly on top of each other is worse than just having a single well chosen size. parallel caps like this cause resonance and without doing the math/measurements of the trace impedance and other components its unlikely to make any improvement and likely to make things worse. the clock you have there has well chosen internal ceramic decoupling caps, by adding arbitrary (actually any) additional caps you will lower the effectiveness of the internal caps, especially the 15pf; possibly (more like probably) causing a resonance

this position in particular is not the place to be experimenting blind, its one of the more critical decoupling caps in the build, but if any, just put a single 10-100nf np0 0603 cap or none at all.

yes adding on top of one another of course one effects the other, it puts them in parallel. the point of small caps is lowest inductance/impedance and shortest loop area, the large cap will ruin all of these specs. the 15pf is too small (too close to internal cap value but not the same)and the 1F is too large, neither should really be there IMO.

as for the reg bypass caps, they'll be fine with the ceramics. they re designed for that as most modern ldos are. the lm317/337 have a resonant peak in the output impedance that can be excited by the use of very low impedance caps, the ones on the board are designed to avoid this, but make them all the same value, dont choose random stepped values thinking it will cover all frequencies when you dont know the interactions.

diyinhk:
was that a recommendation to try 5v AVCC as long as its at their own risk? then post what is effectively a disclaimer?

Last edited by qusp; 11th January 2013 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:07 AM   #45
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Impedance controlled irons? Why haven't I seen those yet? You mean there's a special iron for 50R, 75R and 110R balanced?
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:18 AM   #46
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Thanks Qusp. Live and learn eh ? I'm clearly going to need to live a lot longer.
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:18 AM   #47
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diyinhk:
was that a recommendation to try 5v AVCC as long as its at their own risk? then post what is effectively a disclaimer?
I hope not. That IS worse than people who suggest 125MHz SAW osc
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:22 AM   #48
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Thanks Qusp. Live and learn eh ? I'm clearly going to need to live a lot longer.
Electrical circuit design is engineering not high school trial and error science experiment ... learn then build not the other way.

I don't want to sound like a grumpy but I will but I think this has to be said. There is much that can be learned before building these boards and you will not get close to the datasheet specifications of these DAC chips without very close attention to detail and electrical circuit knowledge. There is a reason that these boards are much cheaper than alternatives, they require particular thought on the builders behalf.

Last edited by hochopeper; 11th January 2013 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:30 AM   #49
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Impedance controlled irons? Why haven't I seen those yet? You mean there's a special iron for 50R, 75R and 110R balanced?
you obviously caught the post quickly before I caught the typo, see the edit, it looks as if you are the one speaking nonsense now you should have quoted my post while it was there lol
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Old 11th January 2013, 11:32 AM   #50
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Electrical circuit design is engineering not high school trial and error science experiment ... learn then build not the other way.

I don't want to sound like a grumpy but I will but I think this has to be said. There is much that can be learned before building these boards and you will not get close to the datasheet specifications of these DAC chips without very close attention to detail and electrical circuit knowledge. There is a reason that these boards are much cheaper than alternatives, they require particular thought on the builders behalf.
There's never only one way to learn and there's not a soul alive who knows it all.

If you have a specific piece of assistance or advice you'd like to offer about building this board, the components, etc, everyone here would like you to share it.

General criticism such as the above lower the tone and do no-one any favours. I hope that's just a bad day you're having. It's Friday. Lighten up mate.
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