Build thread for Diyinhk ES9018 DAC on Ebay - Page 32 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Source & Line > Digital Line Level

Digital Line Level DACs, Digital Crossovers, Equalizers, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th February 2013, 08:45 PM   #311
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
TNT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sweden
Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
You mean doing I/V passively then buffering it? My money's still on LC filtering before any active stages - once you've tried that, you won't go back. The soundstage improvement was the biggest shock when I first heard it Once there's a passive filter there, the active stage becomes much less critical.
I would be very interested in seeing a bid for an diff. output stage for 9012/18 from you Abrax as your ides are different from what is usually advertised - if you don't mind?

/

Last edited by TNT; 14th February 2013 at 08:48 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 09:06 PM   #312
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Hello. Recently finished my diyinhk board.
Power supply: 2 x LT1763 for 3.3V VA, VD and onboard ADP151 for 1.2V VD. I/V conversion with AD797 (powered by 2 x LM317). I use balanced output with analog filter from reference board ESS schematics.
Connected to a PC with CM6631 USB-I2S also diyinhk. x49 clock signal taken from this board too.
Noticed big impact of VA & VD regulator's output baypass capacitors on harmonic distortion.
Measured with RMAA & EMU0202
(white, blue green - VD is only bypassed by 10uF ceramic, VA - as described on graph;
magenta - VD bypassed with 3300uF)

Some close-ups:
Click the image to open in full size.

and the whole picture:
Click the image to open in full size.

The differences look drastic on the graphs, but sonically I couldn't hear them at all :-)
It would be great to see some other people's measurements of this board and generally of ES9018.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 11:00 PM   #313
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sarasota, FL
I use LC filtering before my AD811 I/V stage. Have you tried an 811 as an I/V?
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 11:54 PM   #314
diyAudio Member
 
abraxalito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hangzhou - Marco Polo's 'most beautiful city'. 700yrs is a long time though...
Blog Entries: 105
Send a message via MSN to abraxalito Send a message via Yahoo to abraxalito Send a message via Skype™ to abraxalito
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT View Post
I would be very interested in seeing a bid for an diff. output stage for 9012/18 from you Abrax as your ides are different from what is usually advertised - if you don't mind?
Don't mind at all - thanks for the interest. I posted it up on this very thread last month - Build thread for Diyinhk ES9018 DAC on Ebay
__________________
I have the advantage of having found out how hard it is to get to really know something... how easy it is to make mistakes and fool yourself. - Richard Feynman
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2013, 12:11 AM   #315
diyAudio Member
 
abraxalito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hangzhou - Marco Polo's 'most beautiful city'. 700yrs is a long time though...
Blog Entries: 105
Send a message via MSN to abraxalito Send a message via Yahoo to abraxalito Send a message via Skype™ to abraxalito
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Miller View Post
I use LC filtering before my AD811 I/V stage. Have you tried an 811 as an I/V?
Not tried it myself as I'm a devotee now of passive I/V. But as its CFB architecture it should be pretty good as active I/V solutions go. Walt Jung has written an article featuring it I believe, I think it might have been Audio Amateur.
__________________
I have the advantage of having found out how hard it is to get to really know something... how easy it is to make mistakes and fool yourself. - Richard Feynman
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2013, 11:23 PM   #316
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sarasota, FL
Yes, the one in Walts article is the one I am using now. I worked with Walt on projects during this time.

What low value R, and gain stage after the R, are you using? Also are you using a LPF after the I/V? Thanks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2013, 12:40 AM   #317
diyAudio Member
 
abraxalito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hangzhou - Marco Polo's 'most beautiful city'. 700yrs is a long time though...
Blog Entries: 105
Send a message via MSN to abraxalito Send a message via Yahoo to abraxalito Send a message via Skype™ to abraxalito
I'm using multiple resistors because my DAC is a DAC array - individual DACs have their contributions summed together in the I/V resistors. The total (sum) of the I/V resistors is about 50R. The gain stage is AD605 though I'm currently looking at AD8129 in this role for the next design. The LPF I'm using is a 7th order elliptic using ferrite cored inductors and NP0 caps.
__________________
I have the advantage of having found out how hard it is to get to really know something... how easy it is to make mistakes and fool yourself. - Richard Feynman
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2013, 07:17 PM   #318
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Did some more testing of power supply and output stage.
- Is I/V stage necessary, and how does it improve sound?
- Is the voltage regulator noise a really big issue?
- Do I really need separate power supplies for 3.3V VD and VA?
I tried to answer these questions myself. So I powered the whole circuit from single 3.3v supply based on LM317 (ADP151 for 1.2V). Took signal directly from ES9018 outputs, so it works in "voltage mode". Here is the graph comparing such setup with "fully equipped" circuit with I/V output stage (AD797) and separate low noise regulators (LT1763)

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

As you can see, there is not much difference. Single supply causes some garbage to appear on the high frequency side, but the spikes are very low. Usage of LM317 risen the noise a tiny bit, also at upper freq. There is significant change in the level of 3rd harmonics. The change in first is moderate and may be due to change in input gain of EMU0202, because level of ES9018 Vout is lower then Iout, and I had to compensate.

Conclusion: simply make one 3.3V voltage reg based on anything, hook ES9018 output directly (or thru some caps) to your amp and enjoy the music. This DAC is excellent. Other DAC's require much more effort from diyer to perform so well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2013, 07:04 AM   #319
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
qusp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
hehe, your emu does not have the capability to measure the difference effectively, since the THD performance of ESS far outstrips ADC performance of the EMU. connecting directly, DNR will be similar enough, but THD and dynamic performance will be considerably worse. none of the regulators you tried have truly low noise for AVCC, none are suitable for getting best performance of ES9018.

your conclusion is based on false premise, not the best vantage point to be giving advice.

this has all been undertaken and measured with AP2, the differences are in the range of 15-20dB for direct vs a well made IV stage with decent power supplies for AVCC

Last edited by qusp; 17th February 2013 at 07:10 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2013, 08:26 PM   #320
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
hehe, your emu does not have the capability to measure the difference effectively, since the THD performance of ESS far outstrips ADC performance of the EMU.
Yes, you are right, but in my experiment I tried to make ESS perform worse, not better. And it happend, but not to such extent as i thought. I can easily observe, that 2nd and 3rd harmonics I measured are almost the EMU adc distortion, but disapperance of higher order harmonics, when I applied bigger regulator bypass caps was not my measurement equipment fault. Also the noise floor of the EMU is still lower than ES9018:

Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
connecting directly, DNR will be similar enough, but THD and dynamic performance will be considerably worse. none of the regulators you tried have truly low noise for AVCC, none are suitable for getting best performance of ES9018.
LM317 has around 300nV/sqrtHz noise vs 20nV/sqrtHz noise of LT1763. Difference in noise level of ES9018 powered from this two regulators was marginal (2dB in upper frq region). So I doubt, that building sophisticated AVCC power supply for this diyinhk implementation of ES9018 is worth the effort (anyway I'm going to do this and prove my point of view).

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
your conclusion is based on false premise, not the best vantage point to be giving advice.
Maybe I was unclear, so let me say it again: If you are going to listen to music, not to build a piece of laboratory equipment, than even the humble way of using diyinhk ES9018 board would let you enjoy it without compromising the sound. Distortions always stay below 0,01%

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
this has all been undertaken and measured with AP2, the differences are in the range of 15-20dB for direct vs a well made IV stage with decent power supplies for AVCC
Did they measured diyinhk board, conected to a PC with diyinhk USB converter and decent power supplies were diy made? What Audio Precision unit are you referring to? ATS-2? I would like to see these results.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BUILD THREAD - A New Take on the Classic Pass Labs D1 with an ESS Dac opc Digital Line Level 667 27th August 2014 10:15 AM
High Performance WM8741 Upsampling DAC New Version build thread (show 'n tell too) merlin2069er Digital Source 354 7th April 2013 08:51 PM
Pass D1V3 DAC - build thread spzzzzkt Pass Labs 224 8th December 2012 03:40 AM
Gamma-1 DAC build thread mattmcl Digital Line Level 8 20th January 2012 11:27 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:42 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2