Also it would be good if we could make some genuine comparisons of SQ for the modded dacs many DIYers have contructed. We have very little qualitative comparison, other than say, better than the umodded unit, whether a Teradak or Lite or what not. Just how good comparatively, would a fully modded TDA1543 TDA1541A or PCM1798 dac stack be with the poor SNR of the older current output chips.
Surely the latest fast chips dont need stacking and if implemented properly will beat the old DACs
Ian's U.FL adapter board available in new group buy
If anyone is interested in the little Buffalo III u.fl adapter board that can be used with Doede's dac, Ian has started a new PCM to I2S adpater board group buy and he is including the little adapter:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...-pdif-fifo-kit-group-buy-168.html#post4117122
If anyone is interested in the little Buffalo III u.fl adapter board that can be used with Doede's dac, Ian has started a new PCM to I2S adpater board group buy and he is including the little adapter:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...-pdif-fifo-kit-group-buy-168.html#post4117122
There will remain, at least, two strains of thought on deluxe DACs - kind of like those who like Single ended amps versus push pull - what is more important to the listener? The single DAC will have an advantage in continuity since there is not as much sharing of the signal - even with the single board each channel of this DAC is using two DACS. The multiple multiple DACs will, by nature of their POWER advantage have greater "fullness" and dynamics but most likely will be a little blurry in comparison.
As we know there are all kinds of listeners who are very concerned about some of these characteristics and not so much for others.
Modding is fun. You can make it sound different and many times that is just as good as better (or worse). I think we simply get tired of the same sound - I speculate the brain wants a new puzzle to solve - when the brain solves the puzzle it wants a new challenge or once solved is no longer able to be fooled enough for us to perceive something that sounds kind of like music.
Modding can have other purposes than simply being "better" since there is little on this earth harder to describe than what is "better".
Who knows what the newer chips have to offer. If anything it seems more people like the old chips like the PHILIPS chips you mention. There are partisans of the older Burr Brown chips, too
Its a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world in the wise words of Raymond Douglas Davies and we should take enjoyment wherever we can.
I agree with most of the above but I would stress two things:
1. The basic kit sounds very very good. Don't be afraid of it. Four boards was better than two with standard build but not mega so.
2. My current build-larger trafos, one board, super regs everywhere, separate digital and anologue psus, Black Gate, Oscon and Elna caps-is light years above the stock four board dac.
It's not a different sound. It is now elevated to another level and has absolutely no grain or digital edge. It really does sound like a top analogue turntable.The timing above all sounds like that turntable.
3. I do appreciate there are various ways of getting there. The Cinemags I tried gave a different sound, not necessarily better than direct out. I have not tried the Sowters, but suspect they would be very good. As we know, 4 boards are necessary to drive the Sowters current-wise. 4 decks without Sowters does improve dynamics, scale, but leaves a vagueness and harshness that i cannot live with.
David
My apologies here guys but I found it is so amusing when people with so little experience on multi-stack DACs based on Doede's design are prematurely assumed more DACs stacking sound worse because of emf, rfi. i2s sharing,...., i2s signal path length! Have you got any proof justified your assumptions? Honestly..., my multi DACs journey based on my gears/ears and I heard otherwise. For the record, I heard single, 4-stacks, and my very own 8-stacks, and now 11-stacks with 47-shunts. There is a level of improvement for every jump I made and is a pity that those could not able to hear the improvement with their? I guess, there is a possibility of either hearing issue or downstream audio gears are not sufficiently revealing? 
Right now I have dual pc setup into DDDAC. JRemote on iPad wirelessly navigate JRiver on my optimised PC which direct LAN connection to BBB and it sounds so amazingly real. When I get my UFL adaptors in 2-weeks, I will introduce Acko S03, i2s isolator and reclocking with full Sync to DDDAC. I hope with this will bring further improvement.
Right now I have dual pc setup into DDDAC. JRemote on iPad wirelessly navigate JRiver on my optimised PC which direct LAN connection to BBB and it sounds so amazingly real. When I get my UFL adaptors in 2-weeks, I will introduce Acko S03, i2s isolator and reclocking with full Sync to DDDAC. I hope with this will bring further improvement.
I would love to be able to afford $8000 worth of parts to build a tall stack of upgraded DAC boards. Dwjames and I have built fully tweaked single board DACs with an output buffer that provides the drive into a transformer load that a stack of DACs provide. Audio Nirvana for less than $1000. I wish there were more shootouts of various DDDAC builds on the forum.
Next I want to follow Chanh's lead in using the BBB as the digital source device. I shamelessly copy what works for others. I still plan to open a thread explaining all my upgrades and the buffer.
Next I want to follow Chanh's lead in using the BBB as the digital source device. I shamelessly copy what works for others. I still plan to open a thread explaining all my upgrades and the buffer.
I am opened for a shoutout, however, being remotely isolated from you guys proofing difficult! Should there be oversea interest in the shoutout as visitors, I can arrange free accommodation and transportation here during your stay! Unfortunately, I can't do much travel due to work commitment and having a toddler at the present.
Fyi, I have already held many gtg here locally, and again will have another one this coming December once I have S03 in place. Hopefully the participants in this gtg will speak their mind freely and honestly without prejudice?!?
Btw, should there be any interest in BBB with JRiver setup, you can checkout Miero Botic driver thread. It's pretty much self explanatory or pm me direct. Trust me the effort will be worthwhile and very affordable. Big jump from the Pi to BBB.
Happy listening!
Chanh
Unfortunately, I can't do much travel due to work commitment and having a toddler at the present. Fyi, I have already held many gtg here locally, and again will have another one this coming December once I have S03 in place. Hopefully the participants in this gtg will speak their mind freely and honestly without prejudice?!?
Btw, should there be any interest in BBB with JRiver setup, you can checkout Miero Botic driver thread. It's pretty much self explanatory or pm me direct.
Trust me the effort will be worthwhile and very affordable. Big jump from the Pi to BBB. Happy listening!
Chanh
https://vimeo.com/111493055
Here is my setup currently! There will be few more tweaks to come, in especially Acko S03!
Here is my setup currently! There will be few more tweaks to come, in especially Acko S03!
Hi dhbiker,
This was captured by my iPhone 4s. I will try do better via YouTube as it seems the video is too compressed.
Edit:
This was captured by my iPhone 4s. I will try do better via YouTube as it seems the video is too compressed.
Edit:
No those are chokes. I use choke input raw unregulated powersupply, which is still unrefined and needs couple more tweaks. I think, currently, all components in this setup collaborating very well! I love it!
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My apologies here guys but I found it is so amusing when people with so little experience on multi-stack DACs based on Doede's design are prematurely assumed more DACs stacking sound worse because of emf, rfi. i2s sharing,...., i2s signal path length! Have you got any proof justified your assumptions? Honestly..., my multi DACs journey based on my gears/ears and I heard otherwise. For the record, I heard single, 4-stacks, and my very own 8-stacks, and now 11-stacks with 47-shunts. There is a level of improvement for every jump I made and is a pity that those could not able to hear the improvement with their? I guess, there is a possibility of either hearing issue or downstream audio gears are not sufficiently revealing?
Right now I have dual pc setup into DDDAC. JRemote on iPad wirelessly navigate JRiver on my optimised PC which direct LAN connection to BBB and it sounds so amazingly real. When I get my UFL adaptors in 2-weeks, I will introduce Acko S03, i2s isolator and reclocking with full Sync to DDDAC. I hope with this will bring further improvement.
I'm not sure if you are referring to my e mail but if so I suggest you re-read it. I have only said that my current single board dac with custom built separate choke supplies for analogue and digital is streets ahead of a STANDARD 4 board dac with STANDARD psus. I have not hypothesised why: it may just be the caps. I have not tried a 4 board with the same psu, regulator and cap arrangement and am unlikely to do so on cost grounds. My current set up is comparable to a 4 board /standard psu set up in cost terms. Likewise, 1 board goes more easily into my pro standard custom case than four boards so that's another reason to stay with what sounds so good.
I don't doubt that your multi board set up with all those regs sounds great but I would not go to that cost with this design.
Anyhow, I will be in Perth in September 2015 so very happy to hear your set up!
David
oops. well i couldn't see the wires so i was guessing they were power transformers ( i was looking at them from tube amp perspective
)i also have very small LC filter on my current dac and it sounds quite nice after i did it so it must sound heavenly in your case
I'm very happy indeed with my single deck DDDAC with buffer stage and cinemags
my theory is that using multiple dac decks improves things in 2 ways,
1) it provides an average of multiple, less accurate outputs which makes for a single, more accurate output.
2) it has enough balls to drive the output transformers or the next amp stage properly, so the subtleties in the sound are preserved.
I feel that using better voltage regs and nicer caps and power supplies increases the accuracy which deals with benefit #1 and using a simple and inexpensive buffer stage deals with point #2 so I don't feel I'm missing out by only using a single deck.
These are only my theories though (backed up with a little listening experience)... I'd be very willing and very interested to compare my setup to others who have gone the more traditional route of multiple stacked decks if people are up for it?
For now, I feel like my build's pretty much complete and it's time for me to commit and finally tidy up the wires and put it all nicely into a proper case.
I'm thinking I'd like to go for 2 smaller cases:
one power supply case for all mains, AC power, rectification, chokes and such, then another with just the more sensitive DDDAC, RPi, S03 reclocker and buffer output stage in.
cheers,
James
my theory is that using multiple dac decks improves things in 2 ways,
1) it provides an average of multiple, less accurate outputs which makes for a single, more accurate output.
2) it has enough balls to drive the output transformers or the next amp stage properly, so the subtleties in the sound are preserved.
I feel that using better voltage regs and nicer caps and power supplies increases the accuracy which deals with benefit #1 and using a simple and inexpensive buffer stage deals with point #2 so I don't feel I'm missing out by only using a single deck.
These are only my theories though (backed up with a little listening experience)... I'd be very willing and very interested to compare my setup to others who have gone the more traditional route of multiple stacked decks if people are up for it?
For now, I feel like my build's pretty much complete and it's time for me to commit and finally tidy up the wires and put it all nicely into a proper case.
I'm thinking I'd like to go for 2 smaller cases:
one power supply case for all mains, AC power, rectification, chokes and such, then another with just the more sensitive DDDAC, RPi, S03 reclocker and buffer output stage in.
cheers,
James
I am using Audio Note 2watt resistors, direct from pos /neg into a modified Aikido pre, then a customised 300b push pull with interstage trafos.I also have Mundorf tin/foil output caps as an alternative which I prefer to the gold metallised film.
I can hear every nuance of every change thru this set up.
I'm not sure if you are referring to my e mail but if so I suggest you re-read it. I have only said that my current single board dac with custom built separate choke supplies for analogue and digital is streets ahead of a STANDARD 4 board dac with STANDARD psus. I have not hypothesised why: it may just be the caps. I have not tried a 4 board with the same psu, regulator and cap arrangement and am unlikely to do so on cost grounds. My current set up is comparable to a 4 board /standard psu set up in cost terms. Likewise, 1 board goes more easily into my pro standard custom case than four boards so that's another reason to stay with what sounds so good.
I don't doubt that your multi board set up with all those regs sounds great but I would not go to that cost with this design.
Anyhow, I will be in Perth in September 2015 so very happy to hear your set up!
David
I should add for completeness as well as the super regs, psus, and cap upgrades I moved to the later mainboard with its improved clock delay solution
Hi
After the success of the half clock delay mod i'm going to add the 8V tentlabs shunt regs on a single board and see if that brings further improvement. I remeber reading that the downstream capacitors should be removed. From the schematics is that all of the current caps on the 8V rail? C6, C17/18, C21/22/23, C31/32. Also should the inductor (L2) be removed? Are there any other mods worth considerinf#g whilst i'm doing this?
After the success of the half clock delay mod i'm going to add the 8V tentlabs shunt regs on a single board and see if that brings further improvement. I remeber reading that the downstream capacitors should be removed. From the schematics is that all of the current caps on the 8V rail? C6, C17/18, C21/22/23, C31/32. Also should the inductor (L2) be removed? Are there any other mods worth considerinf#g whilst i'm doing this?
No, half those caps are for the vcom and need to stay. C18 c20 c32 c34 can go if you're using a nicer regulator like a shunt.
C21 c22 c24 c25 are for the vcom and need to be kept. Stick to 47uf here and something nice like a silmic works well.
If you want to get fancy and have your new regs as close as physically possible to the point the power is being used (as per the ideal recommendations from Guido tent), you can mount the new 8v regs in place of the c23 c26 100n caps like this
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Although, to do that, you'll need to add a couple of wires underneath (shown here in green)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And only use 2 wires for each dac channel's output to the mainboard instead of 4 which are joined into 2 pairs straight away anyway. You can see in the pics above that Apos Aneg are unused, but Bpos Bneg have wires to the mainboard
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