This makes sense to me because I find S-D to sound "pleasant" and detailed when playing a solo instrument, but sound very confused and murky during complex passages of music.
Obviously he doesn't speed up the sample rate - look at the sentence construction in detail - its conditional - 'I could also say that...'. He also makes clear there's no oversampling. Clear to me anyway
So at what sample rate does his DAC actually run?
Interesting observation, thanks erin. I wonder if this has to do with crest factor. With few instruments the crest factor is going to be lower than with a huge number - like an orchestra. With high crest factor the key level where the most noise modulation occurs probably gets traversed more frequently.
if you look at a THD vs level plot of the Weiss implementation of the ESS Sabre, you'll note there's a kink just above -40dB. That's evidence for noise modulation - and remember ESS is the best known implementation of S-D where they've fixed up a lot of the problems found in the older implementations.
This is not a problem with S-D per se, but rather that of implementation. Digital sound contains high levels in information, which has to be unraveled correctly for the musical threads to make sense. Any problems anywhere in the design or assembly of the circuitry will very effectively sabotage that unraveling, and you end up with decidedly uninviting sound: confused and murky is equal to, too much distortion of low level, but still audible detail ...
Frank
No, no short version provided... but i believe it is on topic. Personally I have doubts about some of the statements made and methods used. It seem they fall into the same traps they debunk?
Audio Myths Workshop - YouTube
Audio Myths Workshop - YouTube
Hi Frank,
I agree with most of what you say, but, I have noticed this phenomenon when listening to Meridian CD players ( of S-D ilk) as well as Rega's newest DAC, and even other peculiarities of a similar nature when listening to the ES9018 in the Wyred4Sound DAC.
I, perhaps incorrectly, have assumed that the above companies would be using a good implementation of this technology.
Which company do you know of, has a good implementation of S-D technology?
I wonder if you have had any experience with Burr Brown R2R, or TDA1541 done well?
Is that the one where they play a lossless file and an mp3 and say that most people cant hear the difference?
even when playing it back on youtube which has lossy audio, I could pick the difference. First time. Not even playing it back. I just said - its this one. And I was right.
I tend to just report what I hear. I know you are much better with the technical stuff than me. I want to hear that Weiss DAC, but I don't know of shops in Melbourne that carry that one in stock.
But I think we are on to something here...
Look at graphs from ESS OWN presentation. Look at db scale on SD vs Hyperstream. Do someone actually notice this???!!! With same scale the graph will look +- the same. Now tell me something about ESS credibility. Do you think this is correct way to presents facts?
Attachments
Ah that's a very good catch yeah - the scales are totally different - 10dB per div on the bottom one which is supposed to be 'good' and 2dB on the top one. But the overall level of the ESS is much lower. I agree, comparing two graphs with substantially different scales is calculated to mislead.
Because you seemed to answer on behalf of him, pre-empting any answer from him.
Indeed, and I am hoping he will answer the questions I have asked.
No, just interested in his technology (and his claims about it).
I answered a question you asked of him, for which the answer was obvious to me based on what he'd already said. How does that 'pre-empt any answer from him' coz the logic there is totally lost on me? He'd already given that answer so no further answer from him was called for. He's not responsible for your failure to understand what he writes.
That's not really relevant to this thread - he has a website why not contact him through that?
Design w Sound 2012 Weiss Medea+ Measurements
ESS are indeed is so "low rez"...
I would never use *that* DAC! Not to mention vinyl rulez etc..
Abraxalito's frame of though is different than mine, but I would suggest we let the man present his work before jumping into conclusions. I'm genuinely curious to see what he'll produce.
Meanwhile we can all sharpen our knives, make some popcorn and whatnot.
ESS are indeed is so "low rez"...
I would never use *that* DAC! Not to mention vinyl rulez etc..
Abraxalito's frame of though is different than mine, but I would suggest we let the man present his work before jumping into conclusions. I'm genuinely curious to see what he'll produce.
Meanwhile we can all sharpen our knives, make some popcorn and whatnot.
Last edited:
I humbly apologize for my failure to understand and failure to see where Charles has answered my question about what sample rate his DAC actually runs at - is it at the actual sample rate of the input data, or is it always at 192kHz? Maybe you could help me by pointing out his answer?
I see. Making claims is OK in this thread, asking clarifying questions about them isn't?
Just curious - not sure what you want this thread to be, and what you expect from us as participants.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.