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Old 5th December 2012, 06:17 AM   #251
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Quote:
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But, but .... what if the products sound good? The implementations might contain filters functions that the designer is not aware of. But I have to agree, it's hard to disregard math and physics....
then he should make that clear on his website instead of misleading people !!
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Old 5th December 2012, 07:12 AM   #252
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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it's hard to disregard math and physics....
Unfortunately, in the audiophile world it seems to be all too easy to disregard them
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Old 5th December 2012, 07:58 AM   #253
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Unfortunately, in the audiophile world it seems to be all too easy to disregard them
but they forget who sets the objectives on any new audio standards and hardware. It is usually done by engineers and not by audiofools. They don't come up with anything new !!

Last edited by Trevor White; 5th December 2012 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 5th December 2012, 08:37 AM   #254
SY is offline SY  United States
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But, but .... what if the products sound good?
Beranek's Law applies double when you're selling something, even if it's a Chinese circuit board screwed onto a chunk of wood. Basic physics and engineering don't apply.
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You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.- Wilford Brimley
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Old 5th December 2012, 09:07 AM   #255
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Beranek's Law applies double when you're selling something, even if it's a Chinese circuit board screwed onto a chunk of wood. Basic physics and engineering don't apply.
Indeed. There is unfortunately nothing Special or Magic about a properly engineered product. Anyone can buy one, while it takes a Real Audiophile (who has read the right reviews in the Right Magazines) to recognize a product created by an Artist rather than an engineer. But even then you can always make it even more Magical and Special by adding the right cables and tweaks...
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Old 5th December 2012, 09:11 AM   #256
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by SY View Post
Beranek's Law applies double when you're selling something
Sy,

Thanks for reminding us of Beranek's Law - while I was familiar with the law, I had completely forgotten that Leo Beranek was one of the "B"s in BBN, who gave us, among many things, the "@" in email addresses...
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Old 5th December 2012, 09:36 AM   #257
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT
it's hard to disregard math and physics.
Actually it can be surprisingly easy to disregard maths and physics; you just need to be sufficiently ignorant or arrogant.

The big snag is that maths and physics will never disregard you. The Nyquist sampling limit is no respecter of persons; it always operates perfectly and will generate aliases when given the opportunity. Fourier always applies to music waveforms, as they have a finite (zero) number of finite (zero) discontinuities. Causality requires a brick-wall filter to cause ringing, not by adding anything but by what is taken away - the 'ringing' was already there in the (artificial) waveform but was hidden by higher frequency components which the filter has removed.

All this unavoidable maths and physics keeps biting the unwary. The sad thing is that often they don't even notice!
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Old 5th December 2012, 11:20 AM   #258
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hey what happened to charley ??

he demonstrates on his own website why you need proper antialiasing filters for adc's and reconstructions filters for dacs

check it out

Mother of Tone - The CD Format

is this dude just trying to take the **** out of everyone ??
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Old 5th December 2012, 11:43 AM   #259
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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It might have been helpful if he had noted that analogue filters and IIR digital filters use an infinite number of input samples, and so may be good approximations to a reconstruction filter. It might also have been helpful to note that an inadequate reconstruction filter produces some combination of frequency response errors for the wanted signal (no non-linear distortion) and unwanted higher frequency images. The resultant signal waveform may look unnecessarily alarming.

For example, the envelope modulation seen on a high frequency tone tone is simply a result of the signal beating with the image.

However, that page is a reasonable attempt at trying to grasp, and present, some understanding of digital audio. It is a pity that some of his products do not take account of this.
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Old 5th December 2012, 12:50 PM   #260
Charles is offline Charles  Germany
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At the end of the day, it all boils down to this:
Mother of Tone - Time or Band

Charles
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