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Old 2nd December 2012, 06:10 AM   #211
erin is offline erin  Australia
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On a side note, I guess this is one of the reasons I greatly prefer the "original" masters, and the early MFSL CD's. I'm fairly sure they use older AD converters which were not sigma delta variety.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 06:17 AM   #212
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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the only one i'm aware of is the Grimm AD1 but its primarily a DSD encoder and tbh i'm only assuming its not SD its a discrete convertor + FPGA

but its hardly going to be used in the majority

also remember its only a small minority that seems to think its even a problem and its certainly not a problem compared to ridiculously low resolution below that attainable by early 90's mobile phone ring tones and video game machines. I do not experience a dirty window, quite the opposite... my point was anything claiming to produce clean distinct non SD sound is putting forward a red herring, because the music used to assess this 'superiority' must already be 'effected' by this curse; yet it sounds marvelous... its a miracle! i'm cured!

frankly its a bit absurd to even blame the dac at this level. use a volume control like that on any 16bit dac of any type or quality and the volume control will be the limiting factor

Last edited by qusp; 2nd December 2012 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 06:29 AM   #213
PHEONIX is offline PHEONIX  Australia
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Hello qusp,

The Grimm audio A/D is a continuous time SD A/D converter, meaning its a discrete implementation of a SD which has better performance than standard integrated chip SD A/D converters. I have AES paper on it.

Last edited by PHEONIX; 2nd December 2012 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 06:38 AM   #214
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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what will be interesting is when multibit DSD becomes more available; as in available anywhere apart from a couple of insane hobbiests programming FPGAs
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Old 2nd December 2012, 06:40 AM   #215
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHEONIX View Post
Hello qusp,

The Grimm audio A/D is a continuous time SD A/D converter, meaning its a discrete implementation of a SD which has better performance than standard integrated chip SD A/D converters. I have AES paper on it.

Ah ok I wasnt sure. well ha I was just trying to provide a single example, i'm stumped now...

I suppose Bruno was a bit involved in the paper? i'd be interested to read it.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 10:54 AM   #216
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I suppose Bruno was a bit involved in the paper? i'd be interested to read it.
A "bit" (pun intended?) involved, yes.
http://www.grimmaudio.com/whitepaper...0converter.pdf
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Old 2nd December 2012, 01:18 PM   #217
Charles is offline Charles  Germany
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Could you please give an example of a Company which manufactures a non SD A/D converter which is used in professional audio products which is used for audio capturing for recording purposes in studios, which is current production.
Hi Pheonix,

out of curiosity I created such a thing and offer it since 2005:
The Altmann Creation ADC

Sounds very good, sold a couple but not (yet) to major recording studios.

Sorry for answering on behalf of Richard,

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 2nd December 2012 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 11:28 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Hi Pheonix,

out of curiosity I created such a thing and offer it since 2005:
The Altmann Creation ADC

Sounds very good, sold a couple but not (yet) to major recording studios.

Sorry for answering on behalf of Richard,

Charles
That sounds like an SAR converter chip from TI

No recording studio is going to buy a 16 bit A to D. All mastering is done in 24 bit these days.
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Old 3rd December 2012, 11:31 AM   #219
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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No recording studio with a real engineer is going to buy an ADC which lacks anti-aliasing filters, and tries to make a virtue of this lack - thus demonstrating an apparent lack of understanding by the designer (or perhaps a hope that his customers lack understanding). Unless, of course, the microphones used by the studio have such poor HF response that they act as the anti-aliasing filter themselves. Any recording made with this ADC will have aliases appearing from any input components at more than half the sampling rate. I suppose it is possible that some people might confuse these with 'detail'?

The ripples seen on the trace are caused by trying to put a sharp transition through a brick-wall filter. They are unavoidable because the filter is unavoidable, however much wishful thinking goes on in leiu of engineering.
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Old 3rd December 2012, 06:48 PM   #220
Charles is offline Charles  Germany
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That sounds like an SAR converter chip from TI

No recording studio is going to buy a 16 bit A to D. All mastering is done in 24 bit these days.
Its one SAR-chip per channel from Analog Devices.

Made this ADC, because I wanted to actually hear alias distortion, I only knew it from books

The Creation ADC samples up to 192kHz, where you would have to feed it with something above 96kHz in order to expect some alias distortion.

I never managed, except in one case ...

Now my question to the experts: What did I have to connect to my ADC's input in order to get really nasty alias-distortion ?

Charles

PS: eager to hear your suggestions, solution will come tomorrow

Last edited by Charles; 3rd December 2012 at 06:51 PM.
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