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Old 30th November 2012, 02:54 PM   #141
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Charles,

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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
please read before you shoot, don't misquote me,
Could you please point out where I misquoted you (and maybe even answer my questions)?
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Old 30th November 2012, 02:54 PM   #142
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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you also claim its not using oversampling... how does that work with your 32bit volume control then? or you are talking legally about the dac chip not being oversampling, but its OK for the volume control to use oversampling?

so what about these people that are buying it to use with in ear monitors, ive seen quite a few of them, do you tell them that they will be operating at 6-8 bits at low volume? ive mentioned that quite harmlessly in the threads previously trying to let people make informed decisions, yet people always took me as a detractor or didnt believe me, when its just simple fact with the way the dac is set up. they cannot have been very well informed of these pitfalls before purchase.

yet with all of this you claim superiority and charge more than the most expensive players for performance significantly lower than a version 1 ipod. using digital volume with a 16bit dac, not inspired. it really would have been cool object, I would have thought it cool if you werent making all these claims of superiority, even in the same sentence as saying its operating at 4 bits

Last edited by qusp; 30th November 2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 30th November 2012, 03:00 PM   #143
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
you also claim its not using oversampling... how does that work with your 32bit volume control then? or you are talking legally about the dac chip not being oversampling, but its OK for the volume control to use oversampling?
The way I read this part of the posting by Charles:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
The volume control in the Tera-Player is based on the 32-bit division instruction of the ARM-processor in order to give a complete 16-bit result.

If you turn the volume of the Tera-Player to its very lowest setting, the output will still have 4 bit resolution.
it seems the volume control is just a scaling operation on the 16-bit data, but with the calculation done in 32 bit. So just what everybody else would call a 16-bit volume control.
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Old 30th November 2012, 03:03 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
you also claim its not using oversampling... how does that work with your 32bit volume control then? or you are talking legally about the dac chip not being oversampling, but its OK for the volume control to use oversampling?
Why would a volume control use oversampling if the DAC doesn't?
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Old 30th November 2012, 03:06 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
This thread is reaching new levels of absurdity.
One pointless post an absurd thread doth not make. Please keep this on-topic Julf - cross examination of Charles on aspects of sigma-delta theory most certainly is OT. Start another thread if you really want to engage in a willy-wanging contest.
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Old 30th November 2012, 03:24 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Why would a volume control use oversampling if the DAC doesn't?
it was a question, when someone calls something a 32bit volume control (which being cortex is possibly running on a non audio xtal frequency), I would normally associate that with spinning it out to 32bits for higher precision and then spitting it out into 16bits, but if its still just running at 16bits fullscale but just allocating 32bits for the calculation, then thats another thing. my apologies.... its a minor point

but I agree and i'm happy to just leave it, its clear what the strategy is, to baffle and confuse those not able to read into the carefully worded detail. no amount of argument will change that.

Last edited by qusp; 30th November 2012 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 30th November 2012, 03:26 PM   #147
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
One pointless post an absurd thread doth not make. Please keep this on-topic Julf - cross examination of Charles on aspects of sigma-delta theory most certainly is OT. Start another thread if you really want to engage in a willy-wanging contest.
Ah, so him jumping in out of the blue to make claims is OK, me questioning them is OT. I see. Sure, roger willco.

Me thinks the emperor will be very cold this winter.
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Old 30th November 2012, 03:33 PM   #148
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Ha, my experience is mainly pratical, I spen all day every day designing PCB's, and have done for over 27 years. No I am not soley responsible for EMC because we work in teams, all providing their expertease in thier own area, but when it comes to EMC problems we all work at them as a team, as any explanation or idea can help solve what are usually a pain of a problem. I study Henry Otts stuff as well as others, Dr Eric Bogatin, Dr Howard Johnson, Keith Armstrong and many other sources of information to do with the complexity of getting a signal (be it analogue or digital) from source to desitination, and to stop said signals causing problems to other signals or broadcasting as EMI. That is the reason why I do understand the comlexities of laying out PCB's for mixed signal, high speed, analogue, power electronics and SMPS (I specialise in laying out high reliability SMPS's for critical systems), because I have done it for many years.
Hopefully the links I have posted will explain why an unbroken contigous ground plane is so important to digital signals (and also to analogue), as you have to consider both the signal and its return path as one entity, failure to do so will compramise your signal, and I do consider that very important especially where mixed signal design is concerned. Digital only is quite tolerant as you are in the digital domain so as long as your switching points are OK the data will get through. Mixed signal and grounds are more critical as your analogue signal is referenced to that ground (arbitry 0Vs), eben moderate digital switching can cause differentials in the ground, especially with a high impedance ground (star ground anyone ), this can effect the low level analogue levels and in the case of audio loss of fidelity, in other analogue based systems it can be catastrophic. This is not theory, this is from practical knowledge and real life problems I have seen. So comments that I make are to give what little information and help I can regarding the subject matter, I am not as hot on the maths and theory of basic electronics as I use to be (when I left colledge, amny moons ago) as said I have concentrated on PCB designs since I got volunteered to become the PCB designer at my first job (my theory these days is as good as my dyslexic typing) but when it comes to PCB layout I do now my stuff.
Again with multiple devices clock distribution is critical, and for somthing as complex as this we would use simulation to both check the layout and determine any and what sort of termination to use.
Have fun ( I think you are)
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Old 30th November 2012, 03:34 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Ah, so him jumping in out of the blue to make claims is OK, me questioning them is OT.
You really are getting the hang of those strawmen now Not my meaning, what I meant was :

Do you know how delta-sigma actually works? Have you ever heard of pulse density modulation?

That's willy-wanging.

Clearer now?
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Old 30th November 2012, 03:35 PM   #150
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Oh and thanks for making me so vebrose, though a bad bad day at work is also to blame for my adrenallin pumped repLY
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