Where's the "DIY" in HiFimeDIY???
"We are a team of Chinese and Europeans developing and selling audio equipment for DIY (do-it-yourself). " ... from About page of HiFimeDIY.com
Looking around on hifimediy.com, I found some stuff that barely qualifies as TRUE "diy" ... and the DAC in this thread ain't it
Seems "DIY" has become a big marketing word, and not just for audio ... UK's biggest home-improvement store -- B&Q, like Home Depot in US -- is none other than diy.com.
Oops, I think I just clogged someone's toilet:
"We are a team of Chinese and Europeans developing and selling audio equipment for DIY (do-it-yourself). " ... from About page of HiFimeDIY.com
Looking around on hifimediy.com, I found some stuff that barely qualifies as TRUE "diy" ... and the DAC in this thread ain't it
Seems "DIY" has become a big marketing word, and not just for audio ... UK's biggest home-improvement store -- B&Q, like Home Depot in US -- is none other than diy.com.
Just spotted something new on their site:
HiFimeDIY Sabre U2 Asynchronous USB DAC
"The Hifimediy U2 Dac works in USB Asynchronous mode using the standard USB Audio protocol. "
...
"The U2 uses the SA9023 USB receiver chip from SAVITECH (not to be confused with the DAC chip ES9023). It accepts 32Khz, 44.1Khz, 48Khz, 88.2Khz and 96Khz inputs at 16 and 24bit.
The SA9023 USB receiver is set to work in slave mode, and PLL1705 is the master clock source. The master clock is 256x according to the sample rate. The PLL1705 is 0ppm (frequency precision) and a low 50 ps jitter. "
And yes, DAC is stil ES9023. Could be nice.
But only thing is bothering me - there is not a lot info on this DSP, I've managed to find only SAVITECH presentation http://www.kinstart.com.cn/backup/documents/pdf-documents/佰潤公司USB高傳真音頻解碼芯片.pdf which shows in the table that SA9023 DOES NOT support async mode. I've tried to ask about it via form on Hifimediy site some days ago, but still got no responce.
HiFimeDIY Sabre U2 Asynchronous USB DAC
"The Hifimediy U2 Dac works in USB Asynchronous mode using the standard USB Audio protocol. "
...
"The U2 uses the SA9023 USB receiver chip from SAVITECH (not to be confused with the DAC chip ES9023). It accepts 32Khz, 44.1Khz, 48Khz, 88.2Khz and 96Khz inputs at 16 and 24bit.
The SA9023 USB receiver is set to work in slave mode, and PLL1705 is the master clock source. The master clock is 256x according to the sample rate. The PLL1705 is 0ppm (frequency precision) and a low 50 ps jitter. "
And yes, DAC is stil ES9023. Could be nice.
But only thing is bothering me - there is not a lot info on this DSP, I've managed to find only SAVITECH presentation http://www.kinstart.com.cn/backup/documents/pdf-documents/佰潤公司USB高傳真音頻解碼芯片.pdf which shows in the table that SA9023 DOES NOT support async mode. I've tried to ask about it via form on Hifimediy site some days ago, but still got no responce.
Luckily, Google can
Other source has confirmed SA9023 could utilize ext clock, so it could be async... Still unsure why they (SAVITECH) put such misleading info in presentation.
Can anyone give me some help with improving the treble on the 23A? I've gone back to a RAKK DAC ver. 01 (PCM1794) because the treble is definitely smoother, and a colleague is finding the treble a little gritty/uncomfortable as well. We both got the units a couple of weeks ago.
Has anybody else noted a gritty treble, and if so are there any fixes?
Has anybody else noted a gritty treble, and if so are there any fixes?
Hmm. Probably there is no solution as none previously noticed Sabre treble to be harsh. If you mean UAE23+ by 23A then power supply could cause a problem. There is just nothing to be broken in signal path otherwise - output goes stright from the DAC which is excellent. But yes it could reveal all the grain you have in your recordings (or added by player/decoder), previously smoothen out by PCM1794. Try listen reference recordings on other player. Hope this helps.
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I bought one of the new asynch models last week to pair with my Sony Xperia TL via OTG/Host cable, ( USB out ). Unfortunately it did not work, even with the USB Audio Recorder Pro App and driver. Not sure why, as my TE7022 HifiMe Sabre model works fine. The asynch model works and sounds great with my W7 laptop. The only other DAC I have is the AGD NFB-12 with 2X WM8741. Quick NOOB question. The UA23 draws to much power from the phone and I have to use a USB hub to "fool" it into hooking up. It still uses power from the phone to run. I am thinking about using the Teralink USB isolator board mentioned earlier in this thread to improve SQ and power the DAC by itself. The spec sheet calls for DC8V-15V, up to 600ma. Can I power it with one of my rechargeable 9V, 550ma Li-ion batteries? Should I add any other components between isolator and battery? Thanks, satwilson
It should work, but capacity is relatively low. You could use powered hub (one which comes with power supply) as a starting point as well, this way DAC will use HUB power. Most hubs without suppluy included do have power input so you can check their input range and power them from battery. This way you could not get ground isolation (which is probably not needed with phone) but at least power will be clean.
Hifimediy also have their USB isolator AFAIR.
UAE23+ yes. I tried it with a lead acid battery PSU and yes, it sounded better in the treble. Not perfectly smooth but better. So PSU does count. Theremay be some distortion elsewhere in the system - I'll have to go on and check for that.
Thanks so much for the reply. Guess I need to be more specific in my needs. I want a portable device, I know there are powered hubs, but they are not portable. I thought to add a battery to my unpowered hub via USB cable but was told by someone else that would not work. Glad to hear they may be wrong, as the USB batteries I looked at had 4X the capacity as the 9v550ma. The Hifimediy isolator is powered by the phone battery, so it defeats my purpose. The unpowered hub I have plus the battery together are somewhat large for my portability, The DAC draws 2-300ma tops. How about I parallel 2x550ma9v=1100ma9v? Still a lot smaller with the isolator board than the hub battery combo. Thanks for your input
They probably are right. I meant there are hubs with power input socket but without bundled supply.
But of course you could open the hub and cut the internal power connection so you could use USB battery to power the DAC (and hub if you'd like so - depends on there you cut the power track). We are on the DIY forum, aren't we?
Has anyone set up the HiFimeDIY Sabre Optical as an outboard DAC with an external power supply and case?
Thanks!
Thanks!
I answered my own question, found an interesting thread "Hifimediy ESS9023 Sabre DAC build", pete_mac built a Hifimediy Sabre DAC in an external case.
I did indeed. Apart from my terrible cutting/Dremeling, it turned out OK.
I undertook some tweaks as per Thorsten Loesch's tinkering with this DAC.
A 200kohm resistor is installed in the vacant 'gain max' position (R28 on the top side of the PCB) in accordance with the ES9023 datasheet (which specifies 220kohm or less).This reduces the voltage to the chip and prevents clipping of the output. Hifimediy advise that they are probably going to fit this resistor from now on.
A small SMD resistor (marked as R10 on the underside of the PCB) is removed between the clock output from the CS8416 chip and the ES9023 DAC chip, breaking the link between the two. A small length of Cat5 cable is soldered into place between the output from the 24.576mhz XO and the MCLK input for the ES9023.
Thorsten L said that the DAC measured better after these tweaks, and my ears are inclined to believe him. The sound is cleaner, more detailed, and more relaxed. However, it was clearly outgunned in a DAC comparison that I undertook with a mate, so I moved the DAC on to greener pastures.
I can't comment on the techncial merits of the tweaks... I'm no DIY guru!
Thanks for sharing!
This is most intriguing part, could you please shed a little more light? I was perfectly sure Sabre could be clearly outperformed only by all-digital (best DAC is no DAC) scheme. Could be something new (or is it just bigger brother?)
You can't judge the performance of a DAC upon the DAC chip alone. The power supply, digital receiver/USB receiver chip etc all play a massive role on the end result.
We compared the hifimediy to a Beresford Bushmaster (fairly similar sound), Resonessence Concero, audio-gd DAC3SE with digital board upgrade, Aurialic Vega, and Metrum Hex.
In the opinion of those present, the little hifimediy was subjectively outclassed by all of the other DACs which it was compared to. It was harsh, brittle and lacking in resolution and separation of musical elements compared to the other DACs. In isolation, I suppose you could say that the DAC sounds OK, but when you start comparing it to others, it's shortcomings become only too apparent.
Of course, we are talking about a $50-100 investment for either the USB or mains powered version, so it's hard to compare it against thousand dollar DACs. The Bushmasters is a few hundred dollars and the closest to the price of the hifimediys.
I've heard better implementations of the ES9023, where more attention was paid to the power supply, input and output circuitry. The Concero mentioned above uses the ES9023 and is in a different league to the hifimediy.
We compared the hifimediy to a Beresford Bushmaster (fairly similar sound), Resonessence Concero, audio-gd DAC3SE with digital board upgrade, Aurialic Vega, and Metrum Hex.
In the opinion of those present, the little hifimediy was subjectively outclassed by all of the other DACs which it was compared to. It was harsh, brittle and lacking in resolution and separation of musical elements compared to the other DACs. In isolation, I suppose you could say that the DAC sounds OK, but when you start comparing it to others, it's shortcomings become only too apparent.
Of course, we are talking about a $50-100 investment for either the USB or mains powered version, so it's hard to compare it against thousand dollar DACs. The Bushmasters is a few hundred dollars and the closest to the price of the hifimediys.
I've heard better implementations of the ES9023, where more attention was paid to the power supply, input and output circuitry. The Concero mentioned above uses the ES9023 and is in a different league to the hifimediy.
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Thanks for that post. It confirms what I'm hearing with the 23+ - "harsh, brittle". I've gone over to lead acid battery supplies. Is there anything easy I can now do to mod this and remove the harshness? Or is it a case of using a different PCB for the ES9023, a different board? In which case, what's the current recommendation? Or is the ES9018 the way to go here?
Yep, thats true, thanks. Main advantage of ES9023 remains that it does not require I/V or other output stage, so it's all about power and digital domain where is much less place for magic and subjective opinions than with active analog stages. Proper engineering using sustained practices and simple measuring helps a lot here. I agree hifimediy untis are entry-level but they set quite a benchmark.
Guess it's time to play with power on mine as I just built a pair of Alpair 7.3-based speakers
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