Hifimediy ES9023+TE7022 24/96 USB Dac

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Received my hifimediy sabre usb dac today, shipping took only a couple of days from oregon to hawaii :) I'm impressed with the sound, it definitely sounds higher detail than my desktop's motherboard audio.. although the motherboard can get a little louder. I'm able to hear more of an improvement through my apple earpods than I can through my sennheiser hd595. I started with the earpods in case the dac destroyed them, didn't want to risk my real headphones :)
 
I have put out to pasture my SB Classic + Bravo tube amp v2 .
I Formatted a Lenovo x41 win 7 + fidelizer + Foobar + Hifimedy Sabre Dac Teralink Drivers + Grado SR 80i
With 24/96 files I don’t only hear music I hear the angels sing

Now I'm really interested. I'm running Win 7 Pro on a Lenovo X61, foobar2000 and Grado SR-80i too! Guys, it's been an interesting read for the past hour or so but after 25 pages, my brain is a little buzzed. I'm hoping I can get some advice here.

UAE23/UAE23+
I keep seeing both reference. Which is which? I only see:
1. HiFimeDIY Sabre USB DAC. 96khz/24bit - ES9023+TE7022 + USB to optical converter
2. HiFimeDIY Sabre USB DAC 2. External PSU, 96khz/24bit - ES9023+TE7022 + Coaxial OUT


a. I am not sure at this point, what I will be using the optical out for (1) but I am pretty sure my Grados will benefit from the 3.5mm jack.

b. I am again not sure what use I have for the coaxial out (2) but the RCAs will feed my integrated amp and driver my speakers. I am curious to know if the analog outputs are fixed or variable? I kinda' like the fact that the volume control is analog but hifimediy recommends that is is set at max and volume be control via Windows instead. Since I am using an integrated amp at the moment, I will be setting the knob at max once again. If I hook this up to a power amp instead, will the unit double as a preamp?

Of the 2 models above, which will present the least noise? I am intending to perhaps get a tube buffer to link the DAC and my integrated amp at a later stage.

(1) The 'Indeed G3' if I go for the 'HiFimeDIY Sabre USB DAC'.
(2) The 'Xiang Sheng DA-01' if I go for the 'HiFimeDIY Sabre USB DAC 2'

I do apologize for the wall post but I could use some clarity on which is the 'UAE23+' and between the do options presently available, which will present less noise. Any thoughts on my intended setup will be much appreciated too.
 
First you might wish to check out the website of the seller to see the difference in the models.

Hifimediy Store

In my opinion the optical out might be useful in future if you get a better DAC than the ES9023. It has been put into the hardware on account that the additional cost is almost nothing, and can help to market it. I stand to be corrected on this statememt.

This DAC is better than any most integrated amps. You might find the driving the Grado's directly is better than going through your amp.

I am driving my headphones directly from the UAE23. I use the computer sound volume control. I cannot detect any noise. The noise level is so much below the music level, that I do not believe it to be an issue.

When I get some time, and a space to work, I will try out some modifications and add a power supply, hoping for a marginal improvement. I might add a UAE23+ to the two UAE23 I already have. I will keep a simple UAE23 with my portable, as it does not require any extra equipment.

If there is a less expensive way to get a great DAC, I would like to know. What is the risk, when you can get such a great DAC for the price of 2 fast food meals?
 
Well i visited the site earlier and there were 2 versions. 1 resembling the wireless dongle for my old Logitech RumblePad and the other that looks more at home on the desk. i did think of getting both though i will really prefer to prioritize my purchases since i do wish to get an external tube buffer/pre-amp.

the toy-like (is this the 23?) model would definitely come in useful when i travel with my laptop but i am not sure about the Indeed G3 for travel and furthermore, it's un-shielded.

the desktop version (this is the 23+?) is an obvious choice for home use with the RCAs into my integrated amp somehow. if i pair it with a Xiang Sheng DA-01 which has a analog RCA input, it basically allows me to bypass the DAC on the XS and utilize the tube buffer into my integrated amp plus there are additional usb/coax/opti input should i decide to connect more sources in the future. I am also trying to decide if i should go for a proper tube headphone amp/pre-amp like the Little Dot.

i have my CDP > XLR > CA 840A V2. the integrated amp drive a pair of Tannoys in the room and another pair of diy bookshelf on my desk. i'm feeding the foobar2000 > 3.5mm-RCA > integrated amp at the moment.

i am gonna talk a walk around the house and decide if i should just shoot for the toy first and see how things turn out.
 
One more UAE23 MOD tested today: I measured negative V on Es9023 NEG pin, in my case -3.4V considering I run the DAC at 3.6V and use a 100K R from Es9023 pin# 6 to ground. I removed the charge-pump cap from the ES9023 CP pins and added negative 3.4V to the NEG-pin. It works GREAT!! I hesitate to undo my work, it is pretty nice sounding.

I used a a 79L05 -5V regulator, a 9V battery, and a multi-turn 100 ohm PCB POT, I set the wiper to -3.4V under load. I may add a cap at the wiper to ground [observing the flipped polarity or using non-polar]. This was a proof-of-concept test -- I think it's safe to say a cleaner voltage at the NEG pin without the charge-pump noise could be an improvement.

This modded UAE23 has:
- dedicated regulators for DAC, TE7022, and aftermarket clocks
- 12MHz TCXO for TE7022 [yanked the crystal]
- 50MHz Asynch clock instead of TE7022 MCK
- 100K from ES9023 pin#6 to ground
- external negative source [charge pump on ES9023 is DISABLED]
- additional USB power filtering
 
Charge-pump...

Daniel,

I sure wish I could see this things on a chalk-board, explained. Ahh well, I can take a laptop downstairs and fire the DAC up on the bench [messy...]
or bring up a scope? Maybe not today yet. I will look for the noise; I've come this far :eek: It SOUNDS great but it did anyway
[listening is not much help]. I did prove it can operate without the cap -- which was what I started out trying to do. Baby steps....

Cheers,

-Pat
 
The optical out simply uses the Tenor TE7022 USB receiver and a optical diode. As if the ES9023 is not there, basically. SO, adding a dedicated regulator at 3.3V feeding a better clock to the TE7022, should help. I do not understand what device would be feeding USB data to the UAE23? A laptop? SO some degree your computer in the car would have an inpact, Fidelizer might help if running WIndows. BUT, Linux has native USB CLass2 kernel streaming? I do not use Linux, but I think later Mac OS has same better native support...so like Lion, Mt Lion, or Linux... Windows 7 and 8 would drive TE7022 natively but maybe not as well as OS X or Linux, and there are add-in drivers that could also improve things for 7 and 8.

Mods-wise try a Fox 924b TCXO for the Tenor chip, add your own 3.3V regulator dedicated to that new clock, feed the clock signal to TE7022 XI pin #37 as I recall.
 
The optical out simply uses the Tenor TE7022 USB receiver and a optical diode. I do not understand what device would be feeding USB data to the UAE23? A laptop?.

The complete car system would be: Nexus 7 android tablet---> USB----> audio interface ----->optical----->Rockford 3sixty.3 DSP------>analog audio----> Amplifiers.

What I'd like to know is if I'll be able to tell the difference modding the interface, but I guess that's a difficult question to answer. May be just cutting the 5v from the USB going to the interface and feeding a cleaner 5v from a good low noise regulator could improve things?
 
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Cleaner PSU always helps. I would try a choke for the input V... maybe a reverse-biased diode in parallel with that for when it shuts down {V spike?}. Put a fuse somewhere...

I keep some later generation regulators around for fun:

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/294/NJM7800-196861.pdf

the NJM7805FA. Heatsink it well. You could also use a USB isolator. COnsider the HifiMEDIY UAE23+ model then, it would have built-in USB isolation {!!}, a nice metal case, a coaxial power plug, an internal regulator you could improve upon?? [I have not seen one up close, it probably has a TO220 regulator you could replace with the best you can find+heatsink] Room for this and that mod... like another regulator at 3.3V for a TCXO at 12.000Mhz.

FOX924B-12.000 Fox Electronics | 631-1068-1-ND | DigiKey

Micrel 5209

MIC5209-3.3YS TR Micrel Inc | 576-1274-1-ND | DigiKey

[it has a case style big enough to solder it without a PCB, low noise...]

You have tried the Nexus 7 with Tenor TE7022 USB receiver?? Or someone has?

I warn you, you might like the ES9023 DAC and want to split of the audio from THAT. If you didn't buy the 3sixty yet... I don't know what your musical tastes are. If I cared a lot about the sound in my VAN I would instantly think about planar-magnetic speakers, but I do not listen to say RAP or have need for dualing 15" woofers.. Neo8PDR Neo3PDR, something to fill in the bottom end... air-bags probably make mobile installs more interesting than when I was a car-stereo nut.

You COULD also add a 9V pre-regulator 12 {13.8} --> big choke/not too huge cap->9V-->5V {USB isolator in UAE23+}-->USB audio interface--> DAC or 3sixty->xovers/amps.
 
OOOpz, my bad, if you use the 3sixty it may not have the coaxial SPDIF? The USE23 has the Toslink no USB isolation. Ahh, so the next mod would be adding Toslink OUT to UAE23+ {maybe a 3.5mm with optical behind it, like UAE23}


The model UAE23 has toslink out build in, the 3sixty has toslink input, that would cover the isolation between Tablet-interface and the rest of the audio System.Do I still need to isolate the USB in this scenario? That's the part that fail to understand and I apologize for my limited knowledge about USBtoSPDIP problems.
 
I am no expert either but I know that if you have any noise coupled via the USB that you CAN eliminate, it is good to do so. If you can keep processor etc noise from the tablet out/away from the USB receiver so much the better. In a normal DAC setting I2S is the way to go, vs SPDIF -- the funny thing is you might have a SPDIF to I2s conversion taking place in the 3sixty? IF that were the case just add USB-->I2S conversion to the 3sixty. Or does it have a USB audio port? [often lame 16/48 in consumer items]. Will ROckfordFosgate tech support TELL you if they do a Toslink to I2s conversion? If they DO... the feeding the Fosgate I2s or placing the USB-I2S receiver in the Fosgate would be best. MAYBE the DSP only knows how to read SPDIF directly. ALso, you probably CAN easily convert the Fosgate to take coaxial SPDIF from the UAE23+, then you could have USB isolation, lots of room to mod things... Or, again, add OPTICAL to UAE23+ well, or get a cheaper TE7022 to SPDIF assy. UAE23+ is a great buy considering the mod-potential and a case... and having such a nice DAC chip in there, AND a USB isolator.

I HAVE some 3meter optical USB isolators but you are not in USA.
 
Thanks for your response. One thing that I learned about car audio manufacturers is that they are pretty secretive about the way their products work. They barely give you proper specs, mind you!
So asking Rockford, JBL or Alpine is not going to produce any sensible data that we could use.
Regarding your suggestion to add a Toslink to the UAE23, I think that could be made without a lot of work,and definitely is a good option but this time I'll try the cheaper interface and listen to the resultant audio quality (o lack of it).I will be a nice experiment. Definitely better that using my Pioneer stereo feeding the 3sixty.
 
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Cleaner PSU always helps. I would try a choke for the input V... maybe a reverse-biased diode in parallel with that for when it shuts down {V spike?}
You COULD also add a 9V pre-regulator 12 {13.8} --> big choke/not too huge cap->9V-->5V {USB isolator in UAE23+}-->USB audio interface--> DAC or 3sixty->xovers/amps.

What I'll definitely so is provide a cleaner 5v juice. Do you realy think a reverse diode is necessary? What if I increase the cap after the choke? Or use a two stage filtering: Battery--->choke--->cap---->choke---->big cap like 10,000mf
Would the bib cap thake care of the spike?
 
I warned you, if you try the ES9023 you may like it too much. {TRY IT} Probably not a big deal on the choke, depending on where it is and how big, but a 1N4007 or UF4007 {better} doesn't cost much either. DC field collapse would make a back-EMF spike just like a relay has. It is probably good to find MOV that can operate at 5V and/or at 13.8... I'm probably worrying too much. I used to see reverse-biased diode across 7805 regulators, for example too -- protected them from reverse spikes? Caps unloading?

Are you having any alternator whine? Now? Big Cap can help MAKE a big spike, at PWR ON, and at shut down, depending on how used. Those caps over a FARAD...WoW.
I usually go inside my amps and see if they have enough C where needed. And I'm not a car-stereo guy. CHokes ARE easily come by for lower currents anyway.

Frankly, polarity protection diodes in car audio have saved many pieces of gear, that and fuses. One reverse-biased across your lower current load, for instance, might prevent a mistake from killing expensive electronics.

Oh you can also use buck-regulators, but some might make more noise.

SO you need 5V for your Nexus 7? And then MAY wish to USB isolate, or, isolate 5V out of Nexus 7? Or can you not have a charger attached to Nexus 7 AND a data-out? Or make a cable +5 in from charging, data out, and separate +5 for DAC pre-regulator?

Well, the UAE23 is just a 3.5mm Walkman plug with a LED emitter behind it for Toslink... you can buy just TE7022 to SPFID/Toslink boxes but you PAY quite a bit and you might like to try the ES9023. UAE23+ somehow with a modded in 3.5mm//Toslink jack would be best of both worlds. HiFiMEDIY usually jumps in with the answer *if* you really want to DO it {export Toslink from UAE23+ model}. I'm pretty sure the UAE23+ would be a better MOD-host in general. I just do not need one right now.

So you tested Nexus 7 with TE7022 USB receiver? Or someone has?
 
I warned you, if you try the ES9023 you may like it too much. {TRY IT}

So you tested Nexus 7 with TE7022 USB receiver? Or someone has?

If I try the ES9023 and I like it, I'm in trouble because I need to feed not 2 but 7 analog lines. Bear in mind that the 3sixty takes the digital stereo audio in and apply crossovers /eq/ time alignment (in the digital domain ) to each one of the 7 analog outputs that I use.

Someone tested the Nexus7 with this interface and it works after enabling USB host mode at kernel level.
 
Much better than the Behringer. I'm afraid the manufacturer will not tell us about the DACs, so only opening the box we could know. Mine is already installed in the car in place that makes opening it pretty difficult.
Only thing I can tell you is that it sounds way better than the Behr unit (I have two of them so I already compared). I think that in the car environment the less conversions the better, that's the reason I want to go digital to the 3sixty input.
I just ordered the UAE23 AND a no name very cheap (10 bucks) USB to optical interface so I'll be able to compare.
 
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