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Old 12th November 2012, 02:07 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azimut View Post
It looks very nice but I'm agree with you.

At similar price is possible to get to the new board made by hifimediy 9023 + coax and an amanero board...
Except that's apples to oranges.

The amanero board will have the same problem with USB/PC noise, except you can't use a USB isolator like this unless you're willing to live with full speed, which kind of defeats the purpose of it.

I just bought an Olimex usb iso board and have just started to play with it. My initial impression is good, but it is diminishing returns, it costs me almost as much as this dac ($40), but the pair is still under $100.

BTW, I was thinking about trying to feed the Olimex better power, but I think I decided it's a waste of effort. The isolator chip is powered by USB power, and is tied to USB/PC ground, so it is noisy.

The Olimex has a buck converter so you can generate +5 for the isolated USB, but that is obviously less then ideal. But, you can just disconnect USB power at the DAC, and feed the DAC cleaner power from your own PS. If you do this, it doesn't matter what kind of reg the usb isolator has because you aren't going to use it.

I haven't decided if I want to feed the DAC 5V, or defeat the reg on the dac and feed it 3.3V.

BTW, right now I am planning to put a little PS, along with the DAC and USB ISO in a little case so its all self contained.

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Old 12th November 2012, 09:53 AM   #72
azimut is offline azimut  Italy
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You right!
I also thought to split the usb cable with something similar...

MikroTik 5V USB Power Injector - €2.69 - WirelessConnect.eu MikroTik wireless / network routers, proxies, firewalls and VPN Concentrators
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Old 12th November 2012, 02:01 PM   #73
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I would expect with that cable splitter you could supply a better +5 for USB power, but you will still get ground noise.

The ADuM4160 chip that everyone uses in these USB isolators creates seperate grounds, so I would hope the peripheral ground is cleaner than the host ground.

And after reviewing the 4160 datasheet, I retract a previous statement, there might be gains by providing the 4160 +3.3V on the 2 or peripheral side. The 1, or PC side would still run from USB power.

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Old 12th November 2012, 02:22 PM   #74
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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the amanero app note calls for an isolator on the i2s, not the usb. this adds jitter but it can be cleaned up to a degree by the ESS dac. you can just supply clean power to the amanero and you have only ground left as mentioned.

the ultimate solution is to use the i2s fifo buffer and the clock isolation board, then you would not need the isolator on the i2s or USB and the clock and i2s would be clean as a whistle. not the cheapest solution going, but cheaper than some tweaks ive seen.
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Old 12th November 2012, 07:50 PM   #75
jinacio is offline jinacio  Portugal
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I went ahead and ordered the Teralink ADuM4160 board - for less than 20 shipped, it's a bargain.
I don't have any measuring equipment, but will provide my subjective feedback (for what it's worth) when it arrives.

On a side note, my USB data lines - not just the power - are noisy, so an improvement on that area is expected.
(I also have a FiiO D3, connected to my TV, and that thing produces zero background noise using the PC onboard spdif)


I've also heard issues of PC not recognizing "peripherals" attached to the USB ISO, and having to reconnect them to force detection.
If the gear is all inside a case, having a separate PSU - and a switch - can be handy in this situation.
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Old 12th November 2012, 07:58 PM   #76
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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it wont do anything to get rid of noise on the signal lines, nor should it.
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Old 12th November 2012, 08:12 PM   #77
jinacio is offline jinacio  Portugal
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it wont do anything to get rid of noise on the signal lines, nor should it.
Really?!?
As the chip isolates the data lines, I would assume that electrical noise/interference would simply be rejected as well?
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Old 12th November 2012, 09:54 PM   #78
azimut is offline azimut  Italy
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Actually it looks like it does something:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpi31 View Post
I've been using a Musical Fidelity V-Link (asynch) USB to s/pdif converter with toslink connection to a CS4398 dac with passive Tamura output transformers for PC playback for a while. The system is very nice and clean but errs on the side of smooth and silky.

My laptop has a knackered battery so runs from the SMPS charger continuously. Prior the the battery dying it was very obvious that the noise floor of the laptop was much much higher with the charger connected. The toslink connection between USB digital interface and dac dealt was the only viable solution, as any ground connection between laptop and stereo destroyed the sound quality.

I initially connected the ES9023+TE7022 between the laptop and amp. The sound had promise but the noise floor was very high and there was a noticeable harshness to the sound. Pretty much what I would have expected given my previous experiences of ground connections from laptop to stereo.

To isolate the laptop from my playback kit, I introduced a cheap ebay ADUM4160 USB isolator (USB protection /ADUM4160 Evaluation Board /USB Isolator | eBay) and separate linear DC supply connected to the relatively clean mains supply used for my playback kit. This entirely dealt with the noise issue and removed the harshness I'd experienced previously. All sounding very nice with more dynamics and deeper, better defined bass than my usual USB interface and dac. Probably not quite the same silky smoothness although this is probably just due to the removal of the 'nicely' coloured Tamura transformers.

The next step will be to mount the USB isolator and ES9023+TE7022 dac PC inside a single chassis with external connections for USB in, DC in and line level out.

I'd heartily recommend the USB isolator for this dac.
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Old 13th November 2012, 01:00 AM   #79
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it wont do anything to get rid of noise on the signal lines, nor should it.
The ADUM will reject common mode noise by virtue of the transformers, and the CMOS switching may go some way to cleaning up the signal too.
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Old 13th November 2012, 04:43 AM   #80
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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ahh fair call, I didnt check which one of the isolation methods its using. neither opto or capacitive isolators would do anything much. hmm cmos switching? thats a bit of a stretch isnt it?


ok so common mode noise will be cleaned up somewhat. the adum datasheet does not specify or even mention any CMRR for noise, just massive transients.
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