Hello, first of all I'd bette explain that I am a complete novice to this type of thing.
I have a Cambridge Audio C500/P500 Pre/Power Amp combination that has served me well over the past decade. However, my music collection is now stored on hard drive (lossless format) and accessed via a purpose built (well, assembled anyway) media centre PC.
I wish to put together and install a usb DAC into the C500 pre-amp to allow a direct source feed from the PC. It would tap into one of the now redundant original line level inputs
I have seen numerous circuit board DACs advertised on eBay for not a lot that would appear to do the job and am looking to see if I can integrate something similar into my amp, though perhaps using better quality components as necessary.
Does this sound viable? As I said, I am a novice and don't yet even know what the circuitry may require.
Below are some photos of the inside of the C500 to show what there is to play with. I have so far failed to find any schematics, though I have just contacted the manufacturer but I'm not holding my breath!
I look forward to any replies. All help and guidance will be much appreciated.
Cheers.
I have a Cambridge Audio C500/P500 Pre/Power Amp combination that has served me well over the past decade. However, my music collection is now stored on hard drive (lossless format) and accessed via a purpose built (well, assembled anyway) media centre PC.
I wish to put together and install a usb DAC into the C500 pre-amp to allow a direct source feed from the PC. It would tap into one of the now redundant original line level inputs
I have seen numerous circuit board DACs advertised on eBay for not a lot that would appear to do the job and am looking to see if I can integrate something similar into my amp, though perhaps using better quality components as necessary.
Does this sound viable? As I said, I am a novice and don't yet even know what the circuitry may require.
Below are some photos of the inside of the C500 to show what there is to play with. I have so far failed to find any schematics, though I have just contacted the manufacturer but I'm not holding my breath!
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I look forward to any replies. All help and guidance will be much appreciated.
Cheers.
I have found the following item on the Bay:
DAC-WOW USB POWERED HIGH PERFORMANCE DAC FOR YOUR PC | eBay
A lot of the cheap options don't appear to have there own power supply, relying instead on the power supply from the USB. Is this ok or are these types all a bit micky-mouse?
I'm a little concerned that it'll either struggle to do the job satisfactorily or that I'll start getting noise interference from the computer supplied power through the usb.
Cheers.
DAC-WOW USB POWERED HIGH PERFORMANCE DAC FOR YOUR PC | eBay
A lot of the cheap options don't appear to have there own power supply, relying instead on the power supply from the USB. Is this ok or are these types all a bit micky-mouse?
I'm a little concerned that it'll either struggle to do the job satisfactorily or that I'll start getting noise interference from the computer supplied power through the usb.
Cheers.
Thanks for the reply.
I would rather not buy one, I want to make one myself. I just need some guidance as to what I actually need to make.
Is this USB powered type of DAC a worthwhile consideration or should I opt for a powered build? I was hoping to plumb it into the amps existing power source.
I suppose a simpler question would be, can anyone recommend an existing USB DAC design that I can build myself and recommend which components I should use with a budget of up to £100?
I would still like to build it into the existing pre-amp though to keep the number of boxes to a minimum. My wife uses the stereo and is going to get put off by the 'silly great big thing' if there is yet another box cluttering up the place that she has to switch on.
Many thanks.
I would rather not buy one, I want to make one myself. I just need some guidance as to what I actually need to make.
Is this USB powered type of DAC a worthwhile consideration or should I opt for a powered build? I was hoping to plumb it into the amps existing power source.
I suppose a simpler question would be, can anyone recommend an existing USB DAC design that I can build myself and recommend which components I should use with a budget of up to £100?
I would still like to build it into the existing pre-amp though to keep the number of boxes to a minimum. My wife uses the stereo and is going to get put off by the 'silly great big thing' if there is yet another box cluttering up the place that she has to switch on.
Many thanks.
So how are you currently feeding the amp? 3.5mm splitter on analogue?
Not sure as to the wisdom of avoiding another box, and you will have many more unexpected issues and complications in incorporating it in the amp.... And what happens when/if the amp goes phut or you upgrade?
My mains powered commercial DAC has run continuously apart from moving house, or power cuts, for the last 4 years, feeding both analogue and spdif to the amp. At about half the size of my external backup drives, it is almost unnoticeable.
There are several DIY projects here, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-ak4393-dac-kit-cs8416-ak4393-5532-a-194.html being particlarly well documented, with several variations on spdif/usb inputs.
Not sure as to the wisdom of avoiding another box, and you will have many more unexpected issues and complications in incorporating it in the amp.... And what happens when/if the amp goes phut or you upgrade?
My mains powered commercial DAC has run continuously apart from moving house, or power cuts, for the last 4 years, feeding both analogue and spdif to the amp. At about half the size of my external backup drives, it is almost unnoticeable.
There are several DIY projects here, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-ak4393-dac-kit-cs8416-ak4393-5532-a-194.html being particlarly well documented, with several variations on spdif/usb inputs.
Get an ODAC. Google NwAvGuy, and look on this forum. Usually for sale around $100, and it is a great sounding converter, with extensive published excellent measurements. I'm listening to one now, and it sounds really good. USB bus powered, small, and would be very easy to install into the preamp you have pictured.
-Aaron.
-Aaron.
Thanks for the replies.
At the moment, bearing in mind that the media centre PC has only been operating for about a month, the sound signal has an ardous route. It leaves the PC via HDMI to the TV. Then, from the TV via SPDF to a Yamaha E800 AV processor. This converts what's left of the signal to analogue and send it through a decent pair of leads to the C500 pre-amp.
Thanks for the link to that DAC kit, it does sound promising.
What kind of trouble am I inviting by sharing the pre-amps power supply? It has the ability to power an optional phono stage so I didn't think there'd be much of a drain on its resources powering a DAC. Or are you refering to other potential problems such as induced noise?
I have no intention of replacing the amp for a while yet and am quite looking forward to seeing what I can do to maintain its usefullness as I rather like it.
I googled NwAvGuy and selected the link to this forum as instructed. He seemed to state that the DAC was dissapointing. Or has it been developed since then? I'll have another look when I have more time (supposed to be working).
I'm really quite enthusiastic about the prospect of this now, dispite not nowing my ar*e from my elbow.
Thanks for the help.
Simon.
At the moment, bearing in mind that the media centre PC has only been operating for about a month, the sound signal has an ardous route. It leaves the PC via HDMI to the TV. Then, from the TV via SPDF to a Yamaha E800 AV processor. This converts what's left of the signal to analogue and send it through a decent pair of leads to the C500 pre-amp.
Thanks for the link to that DAC kit, it does sound promising.
What kind of trouble am I inviting by sharing the pre-amps power supply? It has the ability to power an optional phono stage so I didn't think there'd be much of a drain on its resources powering a DAC. Or are you refering to other potential problems such as induced noise?
I have no intention of replacing the amp for a while yet and am quite looking forward to seeing what I can do to maintain its usefullness as I rather like it.
I googled NwAvGuy and selected the link to this forum as instructed. He seemed to state that the DAC was dissapointing. Or has it been developed since then? I'll have another look when I have more time (supposed to be working).
I'm really quite enthusiastic about the prospect of this now, dispite not nowing my ar*e from my elbow.
Thanks for the help.
Simon.
Hi Simon, I suspect the biggest danger is nothing to do with the available power but what quality the supply is and any interactions with a built in DAC from what is swimming around in the amp casing or vice versa effect. ie - Why create the potential problem to resolve if you can avert it?
Your existing long route via TV relies on conversion to SPDIF at the TV, and subsequent conversion at the Yamaha to analogue onward to the preamp. The new DAC may or may not be better on audio, but will you not need the Yamaha anyway for DTS decodong etc?
Have you tried the SPDIF out from the computer to the Yamaha for comparison?
eg - The conversion to optical on my desktop is inferior to the usbDAC hence coaxial onto the AV receiver with it's built in DACs (coax sounded better than optical on the receiver). For simplicity of use the USB Dac covers album audio from the desktop, and reverts to optical out from the motherboard for film.
Were I to build a better DAC, it would hopefully pass forward DTS etc, but the above may no longer prove true. I have the capability to swap the bits to find the best options, something your intended path would not permit.
Your existing long route via TV relies on conversion to SPDIF at the TV, and subsequent conversion at the Yamaha to analogue onward to the preamp. The new DAC may or may not be better on audio, but will you not need the Yamaha anyway for DTS decodong etc?
Have you tried the SPDIF out from the computer to the Yamaha for comparison?
eg - The conversion to optical on my desktop is inferior to the usbDAC hence coaxial onto the AV receiver with it's built in DACs (coax sounded better than optical on the receiver). For simplicity of use the USB Dac covers album audio from the desktop, and reverts to optical out from the motherboard for film.
Were I to build a better DAC, it would hopefully pass forward DTS etc, but the above may no longer prove true. I have the capability to swap the bits to find the best options, something your intended path would not permit.
Well the supply must be a good one, it says so itself on the label!
I can see what you are getting at. I guess the best way would be to give it a go and if it does prove to be a bad idea I'll remove it again and put it in its own box. At least then I've try'd and learnt from it.
The DTS signal path is alright for watching movies, the sound is acceptable for that. It also means that the signal from the cable TV box passes through the same input so the wife doesn't need to change the input selection on the AV amp. Anything to keep things simple for her to use.
I try'd the direct connection from PC to AV Processor but got no sound and haven't try'd since, I really must look into that.
I'm only interested in improving the stereo signal at present as I much prefer to chillout immersing myself in music with the lights turned down. (that makes me sound like a right nonce! )
It appears that you have a similar set-up to that which I am aiming for (apart from the film signal traveling via the TV).
Cheers for the help.
I can see what you are getting at. I guess the best way would be to give it a go and if it does prove to be a bad idea I'll remove it again and put it in its own box. At least then I've try'd and learnt from it.
The DTS signal path is alright for watching movies, the sound is acceptable for that. It also means that the signal from the cable TV box passes through the same input so the wife doesn't need to change the input selection on the AV amp. Anything to keep things simple for her to use.
I try'd the direct connection from PC to AV Processor but got no sound and haven't try'd since, I really must look into that.
I'm only interested in improving the stereo signal at present as I much prefer to chillout immersing myself in music with the lights turned down. (that makes me sound like a right nonce! )
It appears that you have a similar set-up to that which I am aiming for (apart from the film signal traveling via the TV).
Cheers for the help.
I've mucked about with a good number of DACs, one like this sounds great, is pretty cheap and is super easy to modify. It sells under a lot of different names, but it's all the same board. I even had a custom version of this made a few years back.
I can help you if you want to hack it. And yes, you could tap off the amp power supply to power this DAC.
MUSE Mini 24Bit 192Khz Coaxial Optical USB Input DAC Headphone Out,66*60mm | eBay
I can help you if you want to hack it. And yes, you could tap off the amp power supply to power this DAC.
MUSE Mini 24Bit 192Khz Coaxial Optical USB Input DAC Headphone Out,66*60mm | eBay
He says that he is a complete novice at the beginning of the first post.
Even if he got a board and soldered his own parts (an over rated experience when building a DAC), he would likely have to perform surface mount surgery without the proper equipment or experience, and make some expensive and frustrating mistakes.
The ODAC is just as DIY as any other offerings of complete boards, including Acko and Twisted Pear, which also would be good to examine if you want SPDIF.
-Aaron.
That's a good point, I am approaching this rather blind. But I do have soldering experience from modifying car looms, though not much circuit board experience.
I might practice removing and refitting components from an old board to get some practice. I think I still have an old dead car ECU in the garage somewhere.
I might also have access to some half decent kit at work if I speak nicely to the right people (different department to me) so that would help improve my chances.
I used to build Airfix models as a kid too so I have experience of small and fiddly.
Thanks a lot for all the help.
Simon.
I might practice removing and refitting components from an old board to get some practice. I think I still have an old dead car ECU in the garage somewhere.
I might also have access to some half decent kit at work if I speak nicely to the right people (different department to me) so that would help improve my chances.
I used to build Airfix models as a kid too so I have experience of small and fiddly.
Thanks a lot for all the help.
Simon.
Depending on your PC's OS and the mobo it can be awkward or simple Simon, but if you got zilch out from the board it indicates a setup issue IMHO. Whether the signal out is any good you will only know once you resolve that.
The DAC link I sent - All the SMD parts come pre-soldered even in the kit form from memory, so it is not a huge issue compared to starting from scratch with a bare board.
As I said earlier that particular board is well known and documented, and I know of at least one lad who bolted a very lightly modified kit onto a valve stage which blew away some very expensive and respected DACs in his own audiophile system, so it is no slouch for the money.
I have nothing against the O2 recommendation at all, by the way, only it is pretty new....
Good luck anyway
he also said that he wanted to DIY and reinforced this in at least one other post.
completely disagree. there is nothing DIY about the ODAC, not a thing, particularly since he wants to mount it in the same enclosure, which is the only DIY element left. there is no schematic available, no choice of ANY component, no choice of power supply, no choice of output stage, nothing... you plug in a USB cable. any attempts to modify it will be met by derision in the threads too, particularly should you suggest an improvement
I have found diy'ing my dacs a very rewarding experience. I built all the boards from scratch except the USB convertors, soldered everything on the ackodac dac board (I got the first of the teflon boards with the w.fl connectors being my choice, which became standard and now seems to be picking up steam as a standard. I bought the dac PCB blank and soldered it mostly from parts I sourced, not a normal option now), soldered all its regs from blank, the spdif comparator boards you guessed it, blank. We designed and built our own PCBs for the pre-regulators, transconductance matched mosfets for the IV stage and I have built and tested several designs for the IV before settling on the NTD1 etc etc
theres nothing wrong with buying the ODAC, like I said its a well performing, reasonably priced dac, but its not even a little bit DIY; all your choices are made for you. its also USB only, which may or may not be an issue for the OP. I just dont know if it meets the brief
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That's a good point, I am approaching this rather blind. But I do have soldering experience from modifying car looms, though not much circuit board experience.
I might practice removing and refitting components from an old board to get some practice. I think I still have an old dead car ECU in the garage somewhere.
I might also have access to some half decent kit at work if I speak nicely to the right people (different department to me) so that would help improve my chances.
I used to build Airfix models as a kid too so I have experience of small and fiddly.
Thanks a lot for all the help.
Simon.
Sorry for speaking about you in the third person in your thread. I would like to warn you against getting ebay DAC boards. There is no way to know if you have genuine parts, or if the board is well designed or has any intrinsic flaws.
I don't know you have looked at the ODAC, I think it fits your requirements exactly.
- USB bus powered, so no external power supply required.
- plug and play with Windows, Linux, and OSX
- published excellent measurements, and documented design process
You wouldn't have to solder anything except the connection from the output of the DAC to the input of your preamp. The parts are all surface mount, and have been selected by the designer over multiple implementations to result in the best possible measurements. You would only have to attach the board to the inside of the preamp, provide a connection to the USB input on the board, and solder the output of the DAC board to the appropriate input on your preamp.
The ODAC would give you a well documented, great measuring design that you could use as the basis for comparison against future DIY projects.
Here is the <A HREF="http://nwavguy.blogspot.nl/2012/05/odac-may-update.html">designers website</A>.
You might enjoy reading his site, I have.
The UK supplier of the ODAC seems to be out of stock, but there are others linked on his page (Head-N-HiFi has them, I believe) that have stock and could send you one.
-Aaron.
Right, an update on the plan formulating in my head.
I have just seen a Cambridge Audio C500 Pre-Amp just like mine for sale locally on the bay sat at £25. I'm watching it to see how much it finally goes for but I suspect not a huge amount as Cambridge Audio isn't that well known a brand to the general public. Therefore if I blow the thing up a replacement won't break the bank.
So, with that in mind, I'm going to go for a powered self-build board. You have given me two promising options in this respect so I'll keep a look out and whichever I can get over here without drama at the right price I shall go for.
If it all fails or I make a mess of it and end up with lots of noise, I'll tear it all out again/replace the pre-amp and get the ODAC unit instead. At least this method has some guarantee of success.
Thanks again for all the help and guidance. I shall save up the pennies and pester you all again for worthwhile tweaks during the build.
Regards,
Simon.
I have just seen a Cambridge Audio C500 Pre-Amp just like mine for sale locally on the bay sat at £25. I'm watching it to see how much it finally goes for but I suspect not a huge amount as Cambridge Audio isn't that well known a brand to the general public. Therefore if I blow the thing up a replacement won't break the bank.
So, with that in mind, I'm going to go for a powered self-build board. You have given me two promising options in this respect so I'll keep a look out and whichever I can get over here without drama at the right price I shall go for.
If it all fails or I make a mess of it and end up with lots of noise, I'll tear it all out again/replace the pre-amp and get the ODAC unit instead. At least this method has some guarantee of success.
Thanks again for all the help and guidance. I shall save up the pennies and pester you all again for worthwhile tweaks during the build.
Regards,
Simon.
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