@Nick:
I have written to you privately about separate IR codes for ON and OFF. Now I have a similar request for input selection (Analogue, Optical, Coaxial). Can this be done? If any buttons need to be sacrificed, I'm sure it could be among the 0 to 9 presets.
This request is to be able to integrate Najda into a system that is controlled by a universal remote.
I have written to you privately about separate IR codes for ON and OFF. Now I have a similar request for input selection (Analogue, Optical, Coaxial). Can this be done? If any buttons need to be sacrificed, I'm sure it could be among the 0 to 9 presets.
This request is to be able to integrate Najda into a system that is controlled by a universal remote.
Bought this clever remote. Once programmed it seems to work perfectly and, as a bonus, controls my music server PC too. Success!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Ri...1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1364594837&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Ri...1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1364594837&sr=1-2
So, next stage. I've bought a 6 channel version of...
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD3xMP_Datasheet.pdf
I intend to build this into the case with the Nadja. It may not be top rate quality - but it will do as 'fall back' multichannel amp. (although I have had the UCD180 before and can confirm that the sound is very good). Furthermore - I can tap its neat power supplies!
There is a 'standby' 5.1 regulated. And I can derive the +12 and -12 from the amp rails with suitable regs. My question - is the 5.1v enough to power on the Nadja or do I need the 12v rails as well? Is there any risk in powering Nadja's rails at different times?
If the 5v is all I need then the Nadja will power up the hypex with the remote. Result. If not I will have to come up with another startup procedure.
I expect the answer is in this thread somewhere but its getting quite long.....
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD3xMP_Datasheet.pdf
I intend to build this into the case with the Nadja. It may not be top rate quality - but it will do as 'fall back' multichannel amp. (although I have had the UCD180 before and can confirm that the sound is very good). Furthermore - I can tap its neat power supplies!
There is a 'standby' 5.1 regulated. And I can derive the +12 and -12 from the amp rails with suitable regs. My question - is the 5.1v enough to power on the Nadja or do I need the 12v rails as well? Is there any risk in powering Nadja's rails at different times?
If the 5v is all I need then the Nadja will power up the hypex with the remote. Result. If not I will have to come up with another startup procedure.
I expect the answer is in this thread somewhere but its getting quite long.....
I read the Startup guide and Menu structure, all they mention is a +/- 6dB Bass & Treble filter.
I find it very surprising that the site doesn't have all the info & specs on the product page, neither does it seem to have it in the manuals...time to update the site ?
Even the specs page doesn't mention the filters, which i thought was the primary use of this product.
http://www.waf-audio.com/products.php?pos=1&sub=6&lang=en
I was already asked this question.
You will have some elements of answer if you watch this
video.
It's getting really into the topic from min 12 on - so be patient
Judging by the style of clothing in this video i'm surprised digital filters even existed at the time of making...
Do you know the history of this product? It is not a conventional product, but one spawned by the needs of the DIY community and Nick's generosity. You should get a good idea about this board's capabilities by reading this thread and the following:
Steve's build - a Review of sorts
Najda - Where It All Started. (You'll find my own 17-point wish-list, which is practically completely accomplished by Najda, plus a whole lot more).
Perhaps Nick will bring out a brochure for this product, eventually, but for us who have followed the development of the board it is not a priority. As you can see, there is still some tweaking happening on the software side, notwithstanding the fact that it is at this point a fully function and exceptional piece of equipment.
Perhaps you might consider asking some questions specific to your needs...?
Thanks for the links, Shaun.
I think the product looks great and as soon as i know what it can do exactly, i'll most probably order one!
The site just doesn't do it justice, that's all, and reading through a 15 page thread to find out what the product does is, sorry to say it, a bit of a pain.
I don't mind writing up a mouth-watering summary for the product, that can then be pasted onto the site and into a PDF brochure, but for that i need to know what it can do...
I'd like a list of the various filters available, with the slopes.
I'd also like to know if there is a kit available that includes all the necessary elements (except the case, i'll be building that myself -- out of wood...unless it requires metal for shielding purposes), like the power supply, keypad, LCD display...and any required connectors etc.
If not then i'd be grateful if someone can tell me what sort of power supply i need, what sort of keypad, and what sort of LCD display.
As i say above, this unit looks perfect for my needs and i look forward to having one.
Anyone know of any reviews? Would be good to get this listed on Audiofanzine, for example, and to get current users to review it there. They are huge in France and gaining territory in many other countries. It's a great site.
Thanks to all for your help & the info.
Rick
Read this thread fully. This thread is the documentation
This thread is also documentation of the development, has steered the development, provided development review and describes the continuing development
The first sample boards have only been available for a few weeks.
This is a diy forum. Be part of the development yourself. Look up all the discussions here, throughout the forum and throughout the internet on dsp and as others have said you'll find that as dsp engine it lets you create pretty well any filters you want
When it's a finished product it may get finished documentation, but for the moment join in with the development process
Read this thread fully. This thread is the documentation
This thread is also documentation of the development, has steered the development, provided development review and describes the continuing development
The first sample boards have only been available for a few weeks.
This is a diy forum. Be part of the development yourself. Look up all the discussions here, throughout the forum and throughout the internet on dsp and as others have said you'll find that as dsp engine it lets you create pretty well any filters you want
When it's a finished product it may get finished documentation, but for the moment join in with the development process
Here's some of my filter messing.
Today I removed the Antimode DSP DSPeaker-Anti-Mode 8033 room mode correction system that I have on the tapped horns = lower bass down to sub bass. Cross at 100Hz and no lower crossover, so they play open.
These play fairly flat down to 22Hz with Antimode on. For screen shots of this look in early postings and threads.
Here's the LH tapped horn in room mic at ear position, with NO Antimode, measurement taken today.
Note: I had the bass horn 90 - 330Hz also playing at the time.
Lots a nice boom and suck out out at certain frequencies - this can really set the room off at some frequencies and cause missing bass at others.
Next I applied these PEQ filters:
I'm not saying this is the way to do it, but what I am doing measures like it is working on my calibrated mic... Other views on what is best to do very welcome.
As you can see, pretty big corrections going on. This was done incrementally of course (glad of Najda's interactive mode and another laptop as the signal gen/mic) - done using HolmImpluse HOLM Acoustics
So how does it measure post correction?
Pretty darn good! Note this measurement has the bass horn playing as well - I wanted to ensure the corrections had not mucked up the crossover points between the too.
I forgot to take a Snip-it of just the tapped horn but it was ramping down nicely starting at about 90Hz and tailing off as per the 4th order setting. 4th order measures best playing with the bass horn too so that is what I am using.
Note the pretty much ruler flat to 20Hz. How many speaker systems can say that in room and at ear and at normal listening volume.
So, how does it sound compared to the Antimode?
Well as you would expect there is no drama on all the deep stuff I threw at it.
I did have some clipping issues on the RH channel due to my getting the output gain a bit over cooked on that sub side.
Always good to play stuff through with no vol and correct until the monitor levels look sensible... This is not always how it measures perfectly, but no need to listen to clipped noises from a sub woofer to find out
The bassy stuff I use as reference is:
-Joan as Police woman - Deep Field, track 4 Flash
-Boz Scaggs - Dig, track 6 Desire
-Bach Toccatas and Fugues for Organ Track 1 - d minor, this can make children and pets run and hide
-Drottningholm baroque ensemble - Four seasons, track 10 Allegro non molto (uses St Peters church Stockholm organ for the bass - all recorded very well in the church.
If you cannot hear these tones or feel them then you need other speakers IMO
So, I am impressed. Antimode is now not really needed in my system.
The bass is coordinated and fluid. Corrected in Najda it's flatter when measuring than Antimode could do actually with all its clever tricks.
Ok it's not automatic and a room change would mean new filters of course.
Najda continues to impress - Ace bit of kit Nick!
Today I removed the Antimode DSP DSPeaker-Anti-Mode 8033 room mode correction system that I have on the tapped horns = lower bass down to sub bass. Cross at 100Hz and no lower crossover, so they play open.
These play fairly flat down to 22Hz with Antimode on. For screen shots of this look in early postings and threads.
Here's the LH tapped horn in room mic at ear position, with NO Antimode, measurement taken today.
Note: I had the bass horn 90 - 330Hz also playing at the time.
Lots a nice boom and suck out out at certain frequencies - this can really set the room off at some frequencies and cause missing bass at others.
Next I applied these PEQ filters:
I'm not saying this is the way to do it, but what I am doing measures like it is working on my calibrated mic... Other views on what is best to do very welcome.
As you can see, pretty big corrections going on. This was done incrementally of course (glad of Najda's interactive mode and another laptop as the signal gen/mic) - done using HolmImpluse HOLM Acoustics
So how does it measure post correction?
Pretty darn good! Note this measurement has the bass horn playing as well - I wanted to ensure the corrections had not mucked up the crossover points between the too.
I forgot to take a Snip-it of just the tapped horn but it was ramping down nicely starting at about 90Hz and tailing off as per the 4th order setting. 4th order measures best playing with the bass horn too so that is what I am using.
Note the pretty much ruler flat to 20Hz. How many speaker systems can say that in room and at ear and at normal listening volume.
So, how does it sound compared to the Antimode?
Well as you would expect there is no drama on all the deep stuff I threw at it.
I did have some clipping issues on the RH channel due to my getting the output gain a bit over cooked on that sub side.
Always good to play stuff through with no vol and correct until the monitor levels look sensible... This is not always how it measures perfectly, but no need to listen to clipped noises from a sub woofer to find out
The bassy stuff I use as reference is:
-Joan as Police woman - Deep Field, track 4 Flash
-Boz Scaggs - Dig, track 6 Desire
-Bach Toccatas and Fugues for Organ Track 1 - d minor, this can make children and pets run and hide
-Drottningholm baroque ensemble - Four seasons, track 10 Allegro non molto (uses St Peters church Stockholm organ for the bass - all recorded very well in the church.
If you cannot hear these tones or feel them then you need other speakers IMO
So, I am impressed. Antimode is now not really needed in my system.
The bass is coordinated and fluid. Corrected in Najda it's flatter when measuring than Antimode could do actually with all its clever tricks.
Ok it's not automatic and a room change would mean new filters of course.
Najda continues to impress - Ace bit of kit Nick!
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750 posts is a bit much for me but i get what you are saying.
If someone can tell me where to get the bits to get this thing working then i will gladly be a guinea pig & beta test the hell out of it.
Has anyone compared this to the Behringer DCX2496 ?
More taps (1023) on ch 2, 3, 6, 7
Absolutely, I do remember. It's a good thing that you're posting this here because I don't have any remote with separate On/Off buttons so yeah that's a weird request that you have here
This one makes sense immediately. I'll push that into the next update, thanks.
That's great, thanks for reporting. Maybe I should start maintaining a list of tested gear.
Does it also mean that you don't need anymore Najda to understand the Apple remote protocol?
Well unfortunately no, you can't power on Najda with only the 5V supply. When Najda comes out of StandBy, then the micro will configure all chips on the board, including the CS42428 and the CS3318 and both use supplies derived from the +/-12V rails.
In IIR mode:RickDangerous said:
- Butterworth 6, 12, 18, 24, 36, 48 dB/oct
- Bessel 12, 18, 24, 36, 48 dB/oct
- LR 12/24/36/48 dB/oct
- Peaking/Low shelf/High shelf
In FIR mode you need to generate your coefficients yourself.
Thanks Steve, cool to see you're using your board
A couple of comments, although I'm not a specialist:
1. Have you noticed that you can actually import your measurements into Najda Under Control and set your filters all at once?
2. If you intend to correct also room modes, I suggest that you take various measurements with different mic locations and that, from these multiple measurements you try to identify what is common to all and needs to be fixed.
I played a bit some time ago with the Genelec auto-EQ application. They perform measurements on a cross-like pattern of mic positions. I.e. your listening position in the centre, one more measurement one meter in front, another measurement one meter behind and finally 2 more measurements on the left and right sides. That seemed a good starting approach.
3. For room modes again, prefer cutting to boosting.
4. It's maybe a good idea to address the room modes and the driver EQing separately. So, first eq the driver to your liking, and later see how room modes are affecting the response at your listening position(s).
In order to measure the response of a woofer, I position the microphone 1 cm away from the membrane (I don't know how this translates to your monster horns though). Once you have the driver response, you can set filters for EQing the driver itself.
Only after that you look at the response at the listening position and you don't change the EQing of the drivers.
Best!
Nick
Absolutely, I do remember. It's a good thing that you're posting this here because I don't have any remote with separate On/Off buttons so yeah that's a weird request that you have here
I honestly don't know how this works, because my TV and AV processor only have a single power button each. But they do seem to have different IR codes for ON and OFF. They don't toggle, like Najda. If, say, the TV is already on, and the AV processor is off, and I select activity "Watch TV" from my universal remote, it will switch on the AV processor, and the TV will remain on.
I'd like to hear from other members if they have any ideas on how to implement this.
Edit: here is an article on this exact issue: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/05/hd-101-discrete-ir-codes/
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OK. I've checked how it is done for Onkyo receivers and one Panasonic plasma TV; I suspect it is the same for others. They have 3 discrete codes:
1.) Power ON/Standby (toggle)
2.) Power ON
3.) Standby
Source: http://www.remotecentral.com
1.) Power ON/Standby (toggle)
2.) Power ON
3.) Standby
Source: http://www.remotecentral.com
More taps (1023) on ch 2, 3, 6, 7
Absolutely, I do remember. It's a good thing that you're posting this here because I don't have any remote with separate On/Off buttons so yeah that's a weird request that you have here
This one makes sense immediately. I'll push that into the next update, thanks.
That's great, thanks for reporting. Maybe I should start maintaining a list of tested gear.
Does it also mean that you don't need anymore Najda to understand the Apple remote protocol?
Well unfortunately no, you can't power on Najda with only the 5V supply. When Najda comes out of StandBy, then the micro will configure all chips on the board, including the CS42428 and the CS3318 and both use supplies derived from the +/-12V rails.
In IIR mode:
- Butterworth 6, 12, 18, 24, 36, 48 dB/oct
- Bessel 12, 18, 24, 36, 48 dB/oct
- LR 12/24/36/48 dB/oct
- Peaking/Low shelf/High shelf
In FIR mode you need to generate your coefficients yourself.
Thanks Steve, cool to see you're using your board
A couple of comments, although I'm not a specialist:
1. Have you noticed that you can actually import your measurements into Najda Under Control and set your filters all at once?
2. If you intend to correct also room modes, I suggest that you take various measurements with different mic locations and that, from these multiple measurements you try to identify what is common to all and needs to be fixed.
I played a bit some time ago with the Genelec auto-EQ application. They perform measurements on a cross-like pattern of mic positions. I.e. your listening position in the centre, one more measurement one meter in front, another measurement one meter behind and finally 2 more measurements on the left and right sides. That seemed a good starting approach.
3. For room modes again, prefer cutting to boosting.
4. It's maybe a good idea to address the room modes and the driver EQing separately. So, first eq the driver to your liking, and later see how room modes are affecting the response at your listening position(s).
In order to measure the response of a woofer, I position the microphone 1 cm away from the membrane (I don't know how this translates to your monster horns though). Once you have the driver response, you can set filters for EQing the driver itself.
Only after that you look at the response at the listening position and you don't change the EQing of the drivers.
Best!
Nick
Thanks for the slopes, Nick.
But i think it's worth pointing out that you CANNOT fix room modes with EQ.
For that you need to treat the room, there is no way round it: bass traps, broadband absorbers, diffusers...
Thanks Nick.
I am only just starting out on the journey of EQ. Will figure out how to do what you say with importing.
I have found what I have done in Najda to be just as effective in cutting bass boom at certain frequencies (the ones you see the peaks on in my untreated measurement). This may not be room modes but the peaks certainly existed the room.
Cutting/levelling certainly tames those and boosting brings out the bass you were missing previously. No need for Antimode DSP units.
Re the question about DCX2496 comparing to Najda.
I still have 2 modified 2496's and they are not for true hi-end use IMO.
Unmodified, the gain structure is all wrong for hifi and the standard input and output stage are truly low fi.
Could be that in some systems you cannot hear the difference but in mine they are like low resolution pictures in the photography world.
Using digi input straight in (you need vol control before the Behringer(s), and of course I need 2 units for 5 way so that is a headache), and transformers on the outputs seems to work well.
A friend of mine has a modded one like this and we used it on the 5 way horn system for a day See here GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - For one day only
it sounded fine. It worked using digi input as the PC soundcard we were using had 2 outputs.
The 2nd unit on the bass and subs was only modded like mine with caps on the output and that does not sound good enough IMO.
The DSP part of the 2496 is reported to be good as I can vouch for hearing the transformer output on.
It is easy to use for X/O and all is on the inbuilt display. Lots of annoying pro audio leds flashing away too
The build quality is not all it should be - I've had 3 and all of them have different volumes so you have to adjust the input gain by as much as 6dB!
I did many comparisons with my passives and the passives won every time.
So you pay you €240 per unit and then a load more for mods (if you have some one do it for you).
With Najda I was amazed the SQ was as good as my existing DAC and passives on passthrough 96KHz - Then using the X/O and EQ has been a revelation.
I will try changing the OP amps some when.
You also get a remote and to come the expansion board possibility - hint hint
I am only just starting out on the journey of EQ. Will figure out how to do what you say with importing.
I have found what I have done in Najda to be just as effective in cutting bass boom at certain frequencies (the ones you see the peaks on in my untreated measurement). This may not be room modes but the peaks certainly existed the room.
Cutting/levelling certainly tames those and boosting brings out the bass you were missing previously. No need for Antimode DSP units.
Re the question about DCX2496 comparing to Najda.
I still have 2 modified 2496's and they are not for true hi-end use IMO.
Unmodified, the gain structure is all wrong for hifi and the standard input and output stage are truly low fi.
Could be that in some systems you cannot hear the difference but in mine they are like low resolution pictures in the photography world.
Using digi input straight in (you need vol control before the Behringer(s), and of course I need 2 units for 5 way so that is a headache), and transformers on the outputs seems to work well.
A friend of mine has a modded one like this and we used it on the 5 way horn system for a day See here GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - For one day only
it sounded fine. It worked using digi input as the PC soundcard we were using had 2 outputs.
The 2nd unit on the bass and subs was only modded like mine with caps on the output and that does not sound good enough IMO.
The DSP part of the 2496 is reported to be good as I can vouch for hearing the transformer output on.
It is easy to use for X/O and all is on the inbuilt display. Lots of annoying pro audio leds flashing away too
The build quality is not all it should be - I've had 3 and all of them have different volumes so you have to adjust the input gain by as much as 6dB!
I did many comparisons with my passives and the passives won every time.
So you pay you €240 per unit and then a load more for mods (if you have some one do it for you).
With Najda I was amazed the SQ was as good as my existing DAC and passives on passthrough 96KHz - Then using the X/O and EQ has been a revelation.
I will try changing the OP amps some when.
You also get a remote and to come the expansion board possibility - hint hint
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Thanks Nick.
I am only just starting out on the journey of EQ. Will figure out how to do what you say with importing.
I have found what I have done in Najda to be just as effective in cutting bass boom at certain frequencies (the ones you see the peaks on in my untreated measurement). This may not be room modes but the peaks certainly existed the room.
Cutting/levelling certainly tames those and boosting brings out the bass you were missing previously. No need for Antimode DSP units.
Re the question about DCX2496 comparing to Najda.
I still have 2 modified 2496's and they are not for true hi-end use IMO.
Unmodified, the gain structure is all wrong for hifi and the standard input and output stage are truly low fi.
Could be that in some systems you cannot hear the difference but in mine they are like low resolution pictures in the photography world.
Using digi input straight in (you need vol control before the Behringer(s), and of course I need 2 units for 5 way so that is a headache), and transformers on the outputs seems to work well.
A friend of mine has a modded one like this and we used it on the 5 way horn system for a day See here GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - For one day only
it sounded fine. It worked using digi input as the PC soundcard we were using had 2 outputs.
The 2nd unit on the bass and subs was only modded like mine with caps on the output and that does not sound good enough IMO.
The DSP part of the 2496 is reported to be good as I can vouch for hearing the transformer output on.
It is easy to use for X/O and all is on the inbuilt display. Lots of annoying pro audio leds flashing away too
The build quality is not all it should be - I've had 3 and all of them have different volumes so you have to adjust the input gain by as much as 6dB!
I did many comparisons with my passives and the passives won every time.
So you pay you €240 per unit and then a load more for mods (if you have some one do it for you).
With Najda I was amazed the SQ was as good as my existing DAC and passives on passthrough 96KHz - Then using the X/O and EQ has been a revelation.
I will try changing the OP amps some when.
You also get a remote and to come the expansion board possibility - hint hint
Yes, i think the dcx2496 is good value only if you get it used & mod yourself, including very importantly the DACs, which are just a tiny chip perfectly compatible with the new generation converters.
You can buy one for approx 150-180€ used and mod it into something very silent & transparent for about 150€. Not so bad for something you can use & reuse for various applications.
But if the Najda can do as good or better for 300-350€ then it's obviously a better choice. Plus i cant say i wouldnt be a bit ashamed to have a Behringer product in my array of otherwise selected tools.
The site says 245€ for the Najda board. How much are the other required components in total?