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Old 13th January 2012, 03:11 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Any results, so far?
You can follow along some of the story on my blog if its interesting to you. I haven't updated it very recently though. Measurement-wise I'm pleased enough with the results I'm getting (multiple paralleled 8 pin NXP DACs) and sound quality is still on an upward path.

Quote:
I'd like to spend $1.00, I can spend up to about $2,000.00, possibly a little more.
Probably my design won't suit your budget then as I'd like to get the design into significant volume which means the target price is <$1000.

Quote:
Perhaps in the future Thorsten will come up with a DAC having balanced analog inputs and true balanced output, in the same price range of the DP-777. Such a DAC could be the ultimate solution for me.
More a DAC-pre than a pure DAC then?
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Old 13th January 2012, 04:19 PM   #102
regal is offline regal  United States
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Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post



I had Low jitter clock -> CD -> PDM200 -> PCM1704 * 2 -> various analog stages in the early 2K's. It was not even close to TDA1541 (modified Philips LHH1000 and my own Adagio) or even TDA1545 (ack! dac, diyparadise Monica) with or without oversampling/upsampling in the areas that matter to me .
Thanks for the info always enjoy your insights, I personally have yet to beat either the PMD100-AD1862 or the PMD100-PCM1704 designs using a rankin driver asynch Legato with any NOS DAC I have tried, especially with PM2 recordings (which is the bulk of my collections.) Both of these beat the heck out of the Monica, perhaps it was the PMD200 you used (this early gen DSP chip was dismissed by many as inferior to the mature SIW PMD100 which may have been your issue?). But probably this is because I have not found a solution I find acceptable for slaving the transport which I still think is a requirement for the TDA1541 and no way I am going back to a disk player ( then again we all have different sonic preferences.)

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Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post

Why in a few years? I am already doing precisely that. Not particular sure why 8 X is needed, but the solutions I work with can do 32 Bit at 8 Speed and operate with as much or as little jitter as I specify my oscillators, oscillator power supplies and reclockers for, including galvanic isolation.

So I guess some of us are already experts?

Ciao T
.

Well of course we know you are an expert, but let me know when microsoft has a UAC Audio Class 2.0 Native driver for asych usb. Until then all us non-experts have is Rankin's UAC1 asynch firmware which costs $500 a pop. Proprietary drivers are just troublesome IMHO. If you have Linux or Mac its is not an issue but many still use tools that are only available on a PC.

In a few years this will be solved, and If I were you I would keep my mind open about using the computer to oversample and send this to the "NOS DAC". Look at the Phasure , it is innovative. Have you tried playing with a good upsampling like Ozone or many others (which compete with the big boys programers AD Blackfin's for 5 figure DAC's) with your USB TDA1541 (with of course simpler analog filtering), just for kicks ?

Basically the computer is set to replace the digital receiver and digital filter (complete opposite direction of say the ESS DAC), now if done right you must admit it is worth looking into or at least find it interesting, I wouldn't sit on my laurels with this on the horizon.
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Old 13th January 2012, 04:38 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
You can follow along some of the story on my blog if its interesting to you. I haven't updated it very recently though. Measurement-wise I'm pleased enough with the results I'm getting (multiple paralleled 8 pin NXP DACs) and sound quality is still on an upward path.
There is neither much info nor schematics on you your blog, so I have no idea how to evaluate it.
Anyhow, since it's still being developed, there is nothing to talk about right now.

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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Probably my design won't suit your budget then as I'd like to get the design into significant volume which means the target price is <$1000.
$1,000 is lower than my $2,000 limit…
Anyhow, I'm not going to purchase anything unless I'll either hear it first or have enough reliable feedback to go for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
More a DAC-pre than a pure DAC then?
Well, yes, but it is after your suggestion.

To be very clear.
I'm not considering any upgrade for my loudspeakers, power amp, turntable and cartridge, even if I'll win the lottery.

Upgrading my present digital chain is a nice to have, but not a must. I can live happily with what I have right now for the rest of my life.

The two things that deed upgrading are the phono-stage and the pre-amp.

As for the phono-stage, I believe the best one, or the best one I can afford, is the phono-stage in the late Allen Wright's RTP3C. Since it isn't a stand-alone stage, but an integral part of the pre-amp, the actual solution is the entire RTP3C phono-stage/pre-amp combo. I believe that the RTP3C as pre-amp is as good as it can get and I can afford building it. This is most probably the solution I'll go for. I intend to add to it a tape-head stage and a tape out stage after some of John Curl's designs.

Now should a proper DAC/pre-amp come along, I may consider it.
However, its' digital (DAC) section should be better than the AMR CD-777 that I own and its' analog section should be fully balanced all the way and it should have a sound quality not inferior to that of the RTP3C's. – I highly doubt if such an animal will come along.
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Old 13th January 2012, 04:42 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by regal View Post
Thanks for the info always enjoy your insights, I personally have yet to beat either the PMD100-AD1862 or the PMD100-PCM1704 designs using a rankin driver asynch Legato with any NOS DAC I have tried, especially with PM2 recordings (which is the bulk of my collections.) Both of these beat the heck out of the Monica, perhaps it was the PMD200 you used (this early gen DSP chip was dismissed by many as inferior to the mature SIW PMD100 which may have been your issue?). But probably this is because I have not found a solution I find acceptable for slaving the transport which I still think is a requirement for the TDA1541 and no way I am going back to a disk player ( then again we all have different sonic preferences.)

Well of course we know you are an expert, but let me know when microsoft has a UAC Audio Class 2.0 Native driver for asych usb. Until then all us non-experts have is Rankin's UAC1 asynch firmware which costs $500 a pop. Proprietary drivers are just troublesome IMHO. If you have Linux or Mac its is not an issue but many still use tools that are only available on a PC.

In a few years this will be solved, and If I were you I would keep my mind open about using the computer to oversample and send this to the "NOS DAC". Look at the Phasure , it is innovative. Have you tried playing with a good upsampling like Ozone or many others (which compete with the big boys programers AD Blackfin's for 5 figure DAC's) with your USB TDA1541 (with of course simpler analog filtering), just for kicks ?

Basically the computer is set to replace the digital receiver and digital filter (complete opposite direction of say the ESS DAC), now if done right you must admit it is worth looking into or at least find it interesting, I wouldn't sit on my laurels with this on the horizon.
Have you tried either AMR CD-777 or AMR DP-777?
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Old 13th January 2012, 04:52 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
There is neither much info nor schematics on you your blog, so I have no idea how to evaluate it.
The story is what I have put up because that's the kind of way I evaluate people's designs, from the thinking behind them. Designers' philosophies are what I like to mull over.

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Anyhow, since it's still being developed, there is nothing to talk about right now.
Well there is plenty to talk about if you have the curiosity to ask. Not that you should have, mind. Each to their own.

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$1,000 is lower than my $2,000 limit…
I know from my own experience that people have budgets and if they spend quite a lot less than their budget they'll find it hard to believe they're getting a good enough product.

Quote:
Anyhow, I'm not going to purchase anything unless I'll either hear it first or have enough reliable feedback to go for it.
I'd certainly not expect you to. I don't plan to sell it myself incidentally, I prefer to recruit others for that task so I can focus on design.
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Old 13th January 2012, 05:09 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
The story is what I have put up because that's the kind of way I evaluate people's designs, from the thinking behind them. Designers' philosophies are what I like to mull over.
I evaluate designs by listening, either my own, or others' that I trust.

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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Well there is plenty to talk about if you have the curiosity to ask. Not that you should have, mind. Each to their own.
Is there any feedback about its' sound quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
I know from my own experience that people have budgets and if they spend quite a lot less than their budget they'll find it hard to believe they're getting a good enough product.
Not me, I evaluate products only by their sound quality, not by price, brand name, reputation or looks.

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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
I'd certainly not expect you to. I don't plan to sell it myself incidentally, I prefer to recruit others for that task so I can focus on design.
Is there any built such a DAC?
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Old 13th January 2012, 05:14 PM   #107
regal is offline regal  United States
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Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Have you tried either AMR CD-777 or AMR DP-777?
Would love to if anyone has one near me and would allow a listen. I honestly have never heard an NOS TDA1541 that handled the clock properly like these do and I imagine that is the issue, the problem is to do it right like the DP-777 it is at this time expensive for DIY. I know when I went with the $500 Rankin/Jocko Legato the jitter improvementor whatever it was made the PMD100-AD1862 sound like a new DAC but IMHO this filter/dac chip combo was engineered with some emphasis on reducing jitter sensitivity while the TDA1541 at the time it was engineered Jitter was hardly on the radar let alone typical spdif level jitter. Hence I would very much to hear a well executed TDA1541 like the DP-777. ( I am a crazy headphone guy so I would just bring my little SET amp and a pair of Grados.)

For some reason I have always been very sensitive to DAC quality, or should say Politically correctly "sonic preference." I remember buying the DLIII when it was all the rage and promptly sending it back for a refund, just awful to my ears. So I either build or listen first. I built the Jfet D1 that was on this forum a few years ago it was a PCM63k OS DAC (I also used the PMD100 for this), not bad but I lost interest in it when I replaced the complicated Jfet I/V-buffer analog stage with a simple 6n6P anode follower that sounded better and measured better.

DAC's are a fascinating subject and ThorstenL's philosphies have always interested me, when I said the experts are holding back UAC USB2.0, I was meaning the guys making big bucks programing DSP for Meridian/Alpha/Esoteric/Cambridge, not individual innovators like ThorstenL.
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Old 13th January 2012, 05:22 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
I evaluate designs by listening, either my own, or others' that I trust.
Well me too, but its hardly possible to let you listen from a blog posting. I myself evaluate the extent to which I can trust the designer from reading what he/she has to say about the design process.

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Is there any feedback about its' sound quality?
Yes, some who have listened have had nice things to say. One asked when he would be able to buy it. One or two others haven't been impressed but those guys I noticed listened more with their eyes than their ears

Quote:
Not me, I evaluate products only by their sound quality, not by price, brand name, reputation or looks.
Well you're really a rare species on this forum. Perhaps when the time comes I'll consider you as a beta site, if that would interest you? You can then tell me what price you'd be prepared to pay for the sound

Quote:
Is there any built such a DAC?
Not yet, as the design hasn't been finalized yet. There's some firmware to write too as I plan to include some digital processing. So don't hold your breath for at least another six months.
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Old 13th January 2012, 05:50 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by regal View Post
Hence I would very much to hear a well executed TDA1541 like the DP-777.
There is the AMR CD-77: 6moons audio reviews: Abbingdon Music Research CD-77 and AM-77 (beyond my budget).
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Old 13th January 2012, 05:56 PM   #110
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Well you're really a rare species on this forum.
Yes, I am, not only on the forums here, also on audiophiles forums.

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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Perhaps when the time comes I'll consider you as a beta site, if that would interest you?
I'm definitely interested.

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You can then tell me what price you'd be prepared to pay for the sound
Pay for what? For PCB + schematics? For prototype? For finished product?
For a finished product with sound quality surpassing that of the AMR CD-777 – up to about $2,000.
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