Hi can anyone tell me if the spdif out on the 7220 is generated before or after the filter??? I don't ever remember seeing the answer posted on the forum before!
Happy Christmas
Before of course. SPDIF out is not digitally filtered.
Ok so humour me........
What would happen if you fed the i2s out that was destined for the tda, into another 7220. This would then generate spdif based on the filtered data? Also I wonder how this would effect the sound at the tda? Not sure ive ever read about anyone trying multiple filters in line!
What would happen if you fed the i2s out that was destined for the tda, into another 7220. This would then generate spdif based on the filtered data? Also I wonder how this would effect the sound at the tda? Not sure ive ever read about anyone trying multiple filters in line!
I wouldn't expect it to work. The SAA7220 is designed to receive non-oversampled data, you won't be able to just stack them. However, a modern S/P DIF transmitter, such as the DIT4192, shouldn't have any problem converting the filtered I2S output of a SAA7220 into a S/P DIF stream, if that's what you're trying to do.
Lousy in regards to sound quality or lousy in terms of stop-band rejection? What have you compared it to?
Not to mention that the coefficients themselves are 12bit values. More would help in getting a steeper transition band (and hence more ringing) - I'm not myself yet convinced that longer means better.
I have a Phillips with the SAA7220 and TDA1541. Replaced the OpAmps (LM833). Sounds artificial, that dry "CD sound" that everybody talks about and they keep repeating since the 90's. Some blaim the jitter, some the filters, some the fact that was a rush 16 bit job from the 14 bit that they had in mind. Probably the limited RAM that SAA7210 has doesn't help either (Sony parts had double that ammount).
Based on the stories here, I did try the NOS on it - even worse, back to OS. I sometimes pull it out and try to listen to it. To me, it is boredom.
Sure I can see the apealing side to it - BIG chips, BIG terminals, all trough-hole parts, any beginner can play with it. And whatever you do to it it still doesn't leave the feeling of "I'm done, perfect sound, now I can LISTEN the music". You keep on tinkering...
PS: I did hear once a Denon DCM-560. I did like it (the sound) and wanted to know what was different. CXD2500 with 32kB RAM. SM5845 as filter. PCM61P as DAC. I almost bought it - then I realized that the price was too high for what it was. A nicer CD player than my Phillips.
Based on the stories here, I did try the NOS on it - even worse, back to OS. I sometimes pull it out and try to listen to it. To me, it is boredom.
Sure I can see the apealing side to it - BIG chips, BIG terminals, all trough-hole parts, any beginner can play with it. And whatever you do to it it still doesn't leave the feeling of "I'm done, perfect sound, now I can LISTEN the music". You keep on tinkering...
PS: I did hear once a Denon DCM-560. I did like it (the sound) and wanted to know what was different. CXD2500 with 32kB RAM. SM5845 as filter. PCM61P as DAC. I almost bought it - then I realized that the price was too high for what it was. A nicer CD player than my Phillips.
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Yes, as far as the data having been altered is concerned. However, it's an oversampling filter, the output I2S bus runs four times as fast as the input one. This will cause problems as the SAA7220 can't run that fast, as well as the relationships between the I2S clocks and the master clock being altered.
To my ears the SAA7220 can be part of an excellent sounding CD system.
The last couple of days I worked on, and compared, the digital output of my old Rotel RCD955-AX, which is based on Philips chips (SAA7220-TDA1541A), with a more ambitious Kenwood DP-X9010 CD transport (Sony CXD1125 demodulator chip).
After optimizing the quality of the SP/DIF signals in both players (the pulse transformer in the digital output line of the Rotel was removed as it completely destroyed the quality of the signal) and listening to each "transport" the last days I prefer the Rotel/Philips, sounding more fluid and less harsh compared to the Kenwood.
DA converter is the really excellent Metrum Acoustics Octave, a non oversampling type which does not use the well known "audio" chips, and puts out a signal without needing an analog output stage. This converter is quite "hot" at the moment after a review at 6moons, and to my ears it deserves every right to be so; this combo provides me with by far the best and most musical CD playback, and that's with the SAA7220. Sound surpasses everything I heard until now, including Sabre, BB and AD (non) oversampling and or upsampling types.
NOS Mini DAC Octave
My conclusion: it's all in the implementation.
The last couple of days I worked on, and compared, the digital output of my old Rotel RCD955-AX, which is based on Philips chips (SAA7220-TDA1541A), with a more ambitious Kenwood DP-X9010 CD transport (Sony CXD1125 demodulator chip).
After optimizing the quality of the SP/DIF signals in both players (the pulse transformer in the digital output line of the Rotel was removed as it completely destroyed the quality of the signal) and listening to each "transport" the last days I prefer the Rotel/Philips, sounding more fluid and less harsh compared to the Kenwood.
DA converter is the really excellent Metrum Acoustics Octave, a non oversampling type which does not use the well known "audio" chips, and puts out a signal without needing an analog output stage. This converter is quite "hot" at the moment after a review at 6moons, and to my ears it deserves every right to be so; this combo provides me with by far the best and most musical CD playback, and that's with the SAA7220. Sound surpasses everything I heard until now, including Sabre, BB and AD (non) oversampling and or upsampling types.
NOS Mini DAC Octave
My conclusion: it's all in the implementation.
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Just worth mentioning here that the SAA7220's filter isn't in circuit in such a set-up, only its error-interpolation and SPDIF modulation functions.
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