Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Digital Line Level DACs, Digital Crossovers, Equalizers, etc.

Which DAC to use for new project?
Which DAC to use for new project?
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th November 2011, 11:07 AM   #11
Ken Newton is offline Ken Newton  United States
diyAudio Member
Ken Newton's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by alant4321 View Post
Thank you for information. It is welcome to anyone referring more supporting documents. In order to this research, you need “source + equipment + audience”. My questions are:
1) How did Meridian get 21-bit source?
2) Where is this research paper located for public reference or the ref. no. and date of Journal?
Here is the link: http://www.meridian-audio.com/w_paper/Coding2.PDF
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2011, 11:39 AM   #12
Kurt von Kubik is offline Kurt von Kubik  Denmark
diyAudio Member
Kurt von Kubik's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Viby, Denmark
Send a message via MSN to Kurt von Kubik
Ive also been around to look for the best chips, to be able to make the best DAC possible. But there is more to it than just specs.

If you consider the Sabre DAC, then be aware, that it needs an I/V converter.
And the output is so hot, that your only choise in fact is an op-amp for I/V.
Then you are throwing yourself in the arms of the op-amp manufacturer.
The Sabre is not recommended with i.e. passive I/V, because performance deteriorates quickly with higher impedance.
BB1794 is another good alternative, and this might even perform pretty nicely into a passive I/V.
The AD 1955 will not, it needs an op-amp.

So to get the good performance of the top of the pop DACs further down the line, you most likely need to use op-amps for I/V. Otherwise performance will not be that good.
That could actually make some of the other makes more interesting, i.e. AKM, CS and maybe others.
CS is quite close to the performance of both BB and AD as far as regarding THD+N. The filter in the BB1794 is some steps deeper than in their competitors, but that is mainly due to AKM and CS widely professional use.
As a deeper filter will make more delay, and cannot be used on stage due to that.
Also the voltage output opens up for discrete designs, which I would prefer over op-amps at any time. Mostly due to the free choice of using NFB or not.

So after all, one should look at the final resolution in the analog output.
Stereophile are normally exited when they find something like 20 bit resolution in the analog output of a digital device.
Just do it
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2011, 03:41 PM   #13
Ken Newton is offline Ken Newton  United States
diyAudio Member
Ken Newton's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania
There are several axis upon which the audio DAC chip universe might be fundamentally divided.

Axis 1: Sigma-Delta DACs vs. the resistor-ladder class of DACs. The sigma-delta DACs almost universally have superior measured performance, well, at least up to a 20kHz measurement band-limit. They employ noise-shaping feedback to attain their very low measured THD. The Trouble is, as we all know, often in high-end audio there is little apparent correlation between measured perforformance and subjective performance.

Axis 2: Current-output DACs versus voltage-output DACs. Voltage-output DACs are usually more convenient to implement, but much depends on how they are achieving their voltage output - as far as perceived sound quality is concerned.

Axis 3: DACs with internal digital filters (most of them) vs. DACs either without an internal digital filter or one which can be bypassed (few of them). I view this as probably being the most important axis, as I feel that the sound quality of a DAC is much more determined by the digital filter implementation than by the DACs converter circuit.

I feel that the number of bits of input resolution supported by a DAC has next to no bearing on it's sound quality. I also feel this is true of audio bandwidth beyond 20kHz (or even lower). Of the many problems in attaining subjectively good digital playback, sample resolution beyond 16-bits and high-frequency reproduction beyond 20kHz are near the bottom. What I mean by this is that whatever it is that works against digital audio producing the gestalt of real instruments is not related to CD's 16-bit resolution or 20kHz audio bandwidth.

Last edited by Ken Newton; 8th November 2011 at 04:03 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2011, 01:53 AM   #14
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
diyAudio Member
qusp's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
sorry kurt but that is misinformation at best and complete ******** at worst. the 3vrms (which is a pretty standard balanced line level output, its others that are too low and need gain to meet the standard) output of the sabre is completely usable with any well designed discrete solid state IV stage.

the 32bits of sabre are not about using 32bit audio, although you can, its about giving the filter and volume control (if desired) headroom.

does it reject jitter perfectly? no it doesn't, you can still hear differences between different i2s and spdif sources, but it does a better job than any other dac i've used and consistently gives both measured and audible results superior to any other i have used too, even without opamps. if you can't make the 3vrms output work for you with a discrete stage you are doing something wrong

I saw you just before singing up sampling's praises

Last edited by qusp; 9th November 2011 at 02:01 AM.
  Reply With Quote


Which DAC to use for new project?Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for a DAC project ZenCow Digital Source 1 17th May 2008 10:32 PM
New DAC Project Dejak Digital Source 1 5th November 2006 01:51 AM
DAC Project bostonflyer Digital Source 9 6th March 2006 05:21 AM

New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:13 PM.

Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.79%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2017 diyAudio