I am in the process of constructing the best "bang for the buck" computer-based audio system for my dorm room. I have purchased and installed the following:
-Crown Comtech 400 with PIP-AP input card
-2 25 ft XLR cables, 100 ft of 14 and 16 guage speaker wire (14 to the LR speakers and 16 to the subwoofer)
-X-fi Titanium
-Jamo 250 Subwoofer
-Pioneer BS41-LR speakers
When I got everything installed, I was disappointed to find that the sound from this system was still sub-par. Bass was booming and not well-controlled, mids were muffled, and highs weren't apparent.
In order to troubleshoot, I tested out my friend's FIIO 7 Dac and I was floored by the difference in sound quality. It's hard to describe, but everything sounded much crisper through this $80 DAC.
Since this small DAC made such a big difference in audio quality, I could only estimate that I'd see a much bigger booster with a better DAC.
What type of DAC should I be looking for? Should I build an Ebay DAC kit? I'm trying to find something with a SNR of 105 db or greater and a THD of .05% or less (something that will exceed my amplifier in specs).
I was looking at the Musical Fidelity V-DAC, however at $250, it is a big step up from my friends's $80 DAC in price.
Thanks
-Crown Comtech 400 with PIP-AP input card
-2 25 ft XLR cables, 100 ft of 14 and 16 guage speaker wire (14 to the LR speakers and 16 to the subwoofer)
-X-fi Titanium
-Jamo 250 Subwoofer
-Pioneer BS41-LR speakers
When I got everything installed, I was disappointed to find that the sound from this system was still sub-par. Bass was booming and not well-controlled, mids were muffled, and highs weren't apparent.
In order to troubleshoot, I tested out my friend's FIIO 7 Dac and I was floored by the difference in sound quality. It's hard to describe, but everything sounded much crisper through this $80 DAC.
Since this small DAC made such a big difference in audio quality, I could only estimate that I'd see a much bigger booster with a better DAC.
What type of DAC should I be looking for? Should I build an Ebay DAC kit? I'm trying to find something with a SNR of 105 db or greater and a THD of .05% or less (something that will exceed my amplifier in specs).
I was looking at the Musical Fidelity V-DAC, however at $250, it is a big step up from my friends's $80 DAC in price.
Thanks
heh - I use a Fiio d3, and find it to be superb, and without things you dont want - such as a volume control for headphones.
For $30 or so, its worth a try and could solve your problem.
In my system, it virtually completely eliminates the hiss that was present when using mobo onboard sound or from a 5.1 DSP.
In fact, unless the volume is at ear shattering levels, the speakers are completely silent.
For $30 or so, its worth a try and could solve your problem.
In my system, it virtually completely eliminates the hiss that was present when using mobo onboard sound or from a 5.1 DSP.
In fact, unless the volume is at ear shattering levels, the speakers are completely silent.
those 25' xlr cables probably arent helping, if they arent very low capacitance you could be losing quite a bit of bandwidth there.
i'd be waiting till after rmaf, wyred4sound have a few small dac products that sound interesting they will be launching there; in the meantime check out the ackodac aku23 async usb dac kits
i'd be waiting till after rmaf, wyred4sound have a few small dac products that sound interesting they will be launching there; in the meantime check out the ackodac aku23 async usb dac kits
Hey, thanks for the responses.
I hooked the bb input pip card (bare leads) to my amplifier and ran regular speaker cables back to my computer. I immediately noticed an improvement in sound quality even though the cables that I ran were each 20 feet long.
The problem is that I would ideally like to have my amp in my closet (which is situated diagonally across my room from my computer... about 20 feet). If you guys think that I should move my amp closer, I guess that I could place it under my bed so that my speakers would only be about 5-8 feet away. Currently, each speaker is 25 feet of speaker cable away. I didn't think that this would be necessary since this particular amp is designed for installations in large rooms lol. Do you think that it would be worth moving it much closer to my computer?
I also followed DJK's suggestion in one of my previous topics and installed a 22uf capacitor in parallel with each of the large 6300uf capacitors in the amplifier and bass was MUCH tighter after doing so.
I checked out Ackodac and it looks interesting, however I might look into installing a new OPAMP on my sound card first. The current one is only capable of a 3v/ms slew rate!
I hooked the bb input pip card (bare leads) to my amplifier and ran regular speaker cables back to my computer. I immediately noticed an improvement in sound quality even though the cables that I ran were each 20 feet long.
The problem is that I would ideally like to have my amp in my closet (which is situated diagonally across my room from my computer... about 20 feet). If you guys think that I should move my amp closer, I guess that I could place it under my bed so that my speakers would only be about 5-8 feet away. Currently, each speaker is 25 feet of speaker cable away. I didn't think that this would be necessary since this particular amp is designed for installations in large rooms lol. Do you think that it would be worth moving it much closer to my computer?
I also followed DJK's suggestion in one of my previous topics and installed a 22uf capacitor in parallel with each of the large 6300uf capacitors in the amplifier and bass was MUCH tighter after doing so.
I checked out Ackodac and it looks interesting, however I might look into installing a new OPAMP on my sound card first. The current one is only capable of a 3v/ms slew rate!
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The thing to do is trust your ears - move the amps temporarily and find out if you can hear the difference between 5ft and 25ft of cables. If you can't, then you're fine. Longer balanced interconnects are not a problem for sound quality - after all check out any recording venue where there are microphone wires going everywhere. Mic signals are much smaller than line level, so if long balanced cables gave any sound quality problem, we'd all be hearing it on recordings.
Longer balanced interconnects are not a problem for sound quality - after all check out any recording venue where there are microphone wires going everywhere. Mic signals are much smaller than line level, so if long balanced cables gave any sound quality problem, we'd all be hearing it on recordings.The thing to do is trust your ears - move the amps temporarily and find out if you can hear the difference between 5ft and 25ft of cables. If you can't, then you're fine.
The only thing is that these XLR cables aren't balanced because one end is terminated with RCA plugs. Also, I realized somewhat late that the pip-ap card (the input card I was using with the XLR cables) only has a 90 db SNR. I'll move my amp up when I get back from a short break on Tuesday and see if I can hear any difference. Thanks for the advice.
Ah good point - unbalanced cables pick up more interference the longer they are because they introduce loops into the audio path. The screen (which picks up the interference) is also doing double duty as a signal carrier. Result - interference mixed in with signal. I would not worry at all about 90dB SNR, that's pretty good - better than the hiss level on many CDs.
Having descriptions in addition to product names would help understand your situation. What is all of that stuff?
I think by X-Fi you might mean a cheap internal sound card. Upgrading to most external sound card might help, as there's a lot of stray RF inside a computer case, especially those with lots of fans. Firewire cards are generally superior to USB.
I think by X-Fi you might mean a cheap internal sound card. Upgrading to most external sound card might help, as there's a lot of stray RF inside a computer case, especially those with lots of fans. Firewire cards are generally superior to USB.
Sorry about leaving all of that out. I thought that the Creative X-Fi was a high-end internal sound card until I heard music from a cheap external DAC. Please note that I paid $100 for this sound card when I bought it 2 years ago.
The Comtech 400 is my amplifer (250 watts per channel). The speakers are Pioneer BS41-LR's with 5.25 woofers and 1 inch tweeters (these have gotten excellent reviews online). Finally, the pip-ap is a modular input card that can be installed in a Crown amplifier. I swapped it out for a BB pip card (an input card that accepts bare leads).
Thanks
Ah-hah, thanks!
My suggestion is to try a modern external audio interface... besides being incredibly high-quality these days, these are more or less commodity items, and so might save money compared to high-end "audiophile" DACs or time compared to building a DAC (though, if you *have* the time, that would certainly be a wonderful experience!)
I have no experience with the X-Fi card, but am generally skeptical of SoundBlaster products. Like the BOSE of sound cards, Creative seems to have made some pretty mediocre cards, pricing notwithstanding.
If you think you might ever want to do any recording, I would suggest going with a Firewire card. Unlike USB, Firewire has a controller at both ends, so is capable of "full duplex," sending data in both directions at once (useful for "real-time" monitoring in recording applications).
I've had good luck with MAudio cards, but Focusrite seems to have some appealing, low-cost options these days, too, like the Saffire. Others to look at might include the Echo Audiofire, ESI Quatafire 610, and Edirol FA-66 and FA-101.
Hope it helps!
-Henry
My suggestion is to try a modern external audio interface... besides being incredibly high-quality these days, these are more or less commodity items, and so might save money compared to high-end "audiophile" DACs or time compared to building a DAC (though, if you *have* the time, that would certainly be a wonderful experience!)
I have no experience with the X-Fi card, but am generally skeptical of SoundBlaster products. Like the BOSE of sound cards, Creative seems to have made some pretty mediocre cards, pricing notwithstanding.
If you think you might ever want to do any recording, I would suggest going with a Firewire card. Unlike USB, Firewire has a controller at both ends, so is capable of "full duplex," sending data in both directions at once (useful for "real-time" monitoring in recording applications).
I've had good luck with MAudio cards, but Focusrite seems to have some appealing, low-cost options these days, too, like the Saffire. Others to look at might include the Echo Audiofire, ESI Quatafire 610, and Edirol FA-66 and FA-101.
Hope it helps!
-Henry
Henry,
Thanks for all of the tips! I wasn't into the audio scene when I purchased my audio card a couple years ago so I just assumed that it was a great card and made the purchase (obviously misguidedly).
I did some research into the firewire cards/ external audio systems that you recommend and they are all very interesting. The only thing is that there seems to be a big separation between "pure" DACs like the SCHIIT audio Bifrost, the Musical Fidelity V-DAC (which use SPDIF connections and only send audio one direction) and the systems that you recommend.
Since I'm mainly looking for great quality music playback through my speakers (and not recording at the moment), would a "pure" DAC be a better choice or would I get the same audio quality through a firewire-based audio system like the saffire? Of course, more features are always welcome, however I'm surprised that the minimalist V-DAC goes for about the same price as the Audiofire 4!
Thanks again,
Dallas
Thanks for all of the tips! I wasn't into the audio scene when I purchased my audio card a couple years ago so I just assumed that it was a great card and made the purchase (obviously misguidedly).
I did some research into the firewire cards/ external audio systems that you recommend and they are all very interesting. The only thing is that there seems to be a big separation between "pure" DACs like the SCHIIT audio Bifrost, the Musical Fidelity V-DAC (which use SPDIF connections and only send audio one direction) and the systems that you recommend.
Since I'm mainly looking for great quality music playback through my speakers (and not recording at the moment), would a "pure" DAC be a better choice or would I get the same audio quality through a firewire-based audio system like the saffire? Of course, more features are always welcome, however I'm surprised that the minimalist V-DAC goes for about the same price as the Audiofire 4!
Thanks again,
Dallas
Can you borrow a USB card to try?
Cool, so you don't really need firewire... USB soundcards are much cheaper
I don't have any first-hand experience with expensive audiophile DACs, so take this with a grain of salt.... and for sure listen to your own ears. If you like the way your friend's DAC sounded, you ought to get one of those! You know it's going to be great!
But perhaps it's worth borrowing someone else's normal cheap USB soundcard first, just to see.
On that V-DAC thing, much is made of up-sampling. To me, that smacks of phoney baloney marketing fluff. Although it sounds like it's somehow going to add quality, up-sampling is merely a format conversion that implies neither a gain nor necessarily a significant loss in quality (a little loss of quality is probably inevitable in any conversion).
The thing is... the boutique stuff uses the same silicon as the commodity PC stuff. Boutique costs more because it's produced in smaller quantities. But of course, companies are always going to try to make you think it costs more because they are chasing the last vanishing horizon of quality that so few can discern.
In some cases, I'm sure it's true.
My 2cents. I don't know why I'm trying to sound like such an expert. I really don't know what i'm talkign about, where DACs are concerned.
However, having been in the PC industry since the first 16-bit SoundBlaster hit the market, I feel there is truly an embarrassment of riches these days, when it comes to computer sound. Heck, even the motherboard stuff is high-definition!
But get the card out of the PC, and for sure, that's a big improvement, on the level that really anyone should be able to hear.
Hope it helps,
-Henry
Cool, so you don't really need firewire... USB soundcards are much cheaper
I don't have any first-hand experience with expensive audiophile DACs, so take this with a grain of salt.... and for sure listen to your own ears. If you like the way your friend's DAC sounded, you ought to get one of those! You know it's going to be great!
But perhaps it's worth borrowing someone else's normal cheap USB soundcard first, just to see.
On that V-DAC thing, much is made of up-sampling. To me, that smacks of phoney baloney marketing fluff. Although it sounds like it's somehow going to add quality, up-sampling is merely a format conversion that implies neither a gain nor necessarily a significant loss in quality (a little loss of quality is probably inevitable in any conversion).
The thing is... the boutique stuff uses the same silicon as the commodity PC stuff. Boutique costs more because it's produced in smaller quantities. But of course, companies are always going to try to make you think it costs more because they are chasing the last vanishing horizon of quality that so few can discern.
In some cases, I'm sure it's true.
My 2cents. I don't know why I'm trying to sound like such an expert. I really don't know what i'm talkign about, where DACs are concerned.
However, having been in the PC industry since the first 16-bit SoundBlaster hit the market, I feel there is truly an embarrassment of riches these days, when it comes to computer sound. Heck, even the motherboard stuff is high-definition!
But get the card out of the PC, and for sure, that's a big improvement, on the level that really anyone should be able to hear.
Hope it helps,
-Henry
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