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Old 28th September 2011, 10:17 PM   #31
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you are a distributor, so maybe you could give us a hand
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Old 28th September 2011, 10:18 PM   #32
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In fact we are not But I do wish I could freely distribute the datasheet.
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Old 29th September 2011, 02:56 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
Many thanks for your correct informations. I see now that I was wrong...
My understanding is that the MCLK requirement is merely;
PCM OSF ON mode: 100MHz > MCLK > 192(=3*64) * fs
PCM OSF OFF mode: 100MHz > MCLK > 24(=3*8) * Fs
(Please remember these multipliers include factor 3. )

Therefore, I guess that the following frequencies (MHz) are valid as "Synchronous MCLK".
For 44.1kHz series: 8.46723, 11.2896, 16.9344, 22.5792, 33.8688, 45.1584, 67.7376, 90.3168, 135.4752, 180.6336
For 48kHz series: 9.216, 12.288, 18.432, 24.576, 36.864, 49.152, 73.728, 98.304, 147.456, 196.608

Among them, I confirmed that frequencies, 22.5792, 45.1584, 90.3168, 24.576, 49.152, 98.304 are effective by myself and "wktk_smile" did for 11.2896 using Chiaki's SDTrans384 transport.
(However, these does not include the factor 3.)
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Old 29th September 2011, 05:16 PM   #34
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunpei View Post
My understanding is that the MCLK requirement is merely;
PCM OSF ON mode: 100MHz > MCLK > 192(=3*64) * fs
PCM OSF OFF mode: 100MHz > MCLK > 24(=3*8) * Fs
(Please remember these multipliers include factor 3. )

Therefore, I guess that the following frequencies (MHz) are valid as "Synchronous MCLK".
For 44.1kHz series: 8.46723, 11.2896, 16.9344, 22.5792, 33.8688, 45.1584, 67.7376, 90.3168, 135.4752, 180.6336
For 48kHz series: 9.216, 12.288, 18.432, 24.576, 36.864, 49.152, 73.728, 98.304, 147.456, 196.608

Among them, I confirmed that frequencies, 22.5792, 45.1584, 90.3168, 24.576, 49.152, 98.304 are effective by myself and "wktk_smile" did for 11.2896 using Chiaki's SDTrans384 transport.
(However, these does not include the factor 3.)

But what about an factor 5? Why factor 3 and not 5?

This version of ES9018 can not more then 133,3 Mhz. But can very well 125Mhz...
If we take (f. ex.) 48Khz sampling frequency and factor 5, then we can have an 122,88 Mhz which is in the upper clock range of this DAC. The same for 44,1Khz, will be 112,896Mhz...
These frequencies match well (by factor 5) with the usual samplings frequencies... It could work well. In my case, it could be better than the clock I use for now (125Mhz).

I will order an 122,896 Mhz oscillator for test with. Else, I`m fully agree that is better way to match exactly the clock with samplings frequency.
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Old 30th September 2011, 02:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ White View Post
In fact we are not But I do wish I could freely distribute the datasheet.
My mistake, sorry!

I bet you would
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Old 1st October 2011, 08:25 AM   #36
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90.3168 MHz and 98.304 MHz are the highest clock speeds that I have successfully used.

I have tested with clocks above 100 MHz and of course the ES9018 still works, but you get more and more noise as the clock are increased and at some point you also get spurious noise bursts.

It is easy to test what the best optimum clock frequency are in the design you currently use (and the register settings you use):
Connect the outputs of the ES9018 with only a 6dB/oct filter at a high frequency to protect your amplifiers from HF noise and measure the noise the ES9018 outputs with different clock speeds.
You can also simply listen and you will hear the same.
If you use clocks with a enable / disable pin - you can connect several clocks in parallel and enable them one at a time.

It is also possible to use a programmable I2C controlled clock module so you can use the IR remote control to change the frequency over the range 6 MHz to 200 MHz with the used frequency displayed on the LCD display.
I have made such a setup for test purposes...

There is also a big difference in quality between clocks (running at the same speed).
I use only my own custom clocks that are special built to my specifications..
The clocks above 100 MHz needed several production runs to pass my specifications...

Last edited by RayCtech; 1st October 2011 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 1st October 2011, 10:19 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
But what about an factor 5? Why factor 3 and not 5?
My possible answer is "It's just the minimum integer between 2 and 4".

I think the following frequencies could be regarded as "Synchronous MCLK".
For 44.1 kHz series: 2.8224 MHz x n ( n=3, 4, 5, 6, ... )
For 48 kHz series: 3.072 MHz x m (m=3, 4, 5, 6 ... )

I think it's very important to control and keep constant conditions other than frequency when you discuss clock frequency dependency of sound quality.
Output noise feature of ES9018 depends on its register setting and a phase noise characteristic of asynchronous clock generator effects sound quality.

Coris, Can you figure out all the register values your clock frequency experiments base on?

By the way, the best instrument for changing clock frequency might be like this.(In Japanese)
3GHz ????? CW?????/??????????
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Old 2nd October 2011, 07:16 PM   #38
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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Thanks to RayCtech for the last post, good explanations and advices.
Thanks to Bunpei too. A quick answer to you: yes, I keep the other conditions the same, while changing the oscillators. No, unfortunately I can not have any value of the ES9018 registers on this platform I experiment with. As I said before I test on a Oppo BDP95 player. It seems that everything is controlled by software here, so I do not know what about inside the registers and even the registers set-up Oppo used for this ES9018. I will repeat later the same experiments on Buffalo for compare the results.

This time I`ve made some measurements in case of an 100Mhz oscillator (a Buffalo one...), and a standard 125Mhz oscillator (20ppm). The pictures are here to. The measure points are: oscillator output/clk input pin of ES9018, the DAC chip analogue output (before I/V stage), on finally output (RCA).
I have to precise here that I have no any filter between I/V stage and final op amp stage. Only an 10pF paralleled on the I/V resistor and 4pF paralleled on final op amp feedback resistor... I found out that the best sound ever is in this no filters set-up. But this is another discussion...
A little bit increasing in output noise by using 125Mhz is evident, but not substantial... On the finally output (RCA), when using 125Mhz the noise level is quite lower then using an 100Mhz Crystek oscillator.
With this occasion I`ve made again listen/comparing tests with this two oscillators. A big improvement still be in place when using 125 Mhz oscillator. Big increasing in dynamics, even deeper and penetrating bass, a very good spatial separation of the sounds, and wider sound stage. I`m very convinced now about the improvement when using 125 Mhz, even though the measurements are not so evident in this respect... I`m waiting now for the 122,88 Mhz oscillator for test with.
Still not finding the best explanation of all this...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OSCout100Mhz.jpg (156.3 KB, 672 views)
File Type: jpg Es9018-Aout100.jpg (154.6 KB, 653 views)
File Type: jpg RCAout100.jpg (157.7 KB, 644 views)
File Type: jpg OSCout125Mhz.jpg (157.9 KB, 623 views)
File Type: jpg Ess9018-Aout125.jpg (155.6 KB, 505 views)
File Type: jpg RCAout125.jpg (142.8 KB, 107 views)

Last edited by Coris; 2nd October 2011 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 03:38 PM   #39
Bunpei is online now Bunpei  Japan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
Now I have a question for you and others: have somebody tried to bypass/decoupling ES9018 with 1000F (ceramic/tantalum) on the AVCC pins (L/R)?

I will not say how it sounds... Maybe somebody else will get curious to try it, and will come here with comments about this experience...
Your idea made me try it! The result is wonderful.
I added 1000 microF/16V Sanyo OS-CON at the output side of AVCC shunt regulator of TPA Buffalo III. The caps bring more powerful bass without losing a high resolution in mid and treble. I'm much satisfied with the result.
Thank you very much for your initial idea!
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Old 3rd October 2011, 04:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunpei View Post
Your idea made me try it! The result is wonderful.
I added 1000 microF/16V Sanyo OS-CON at the output side of AVCC shunt regulator of TPA Buffalo III. The caps bring more powerful bass without losing a high resolution in mid and treble. I'm much satisfied with the result.
Thank you very much for your initial idea!
Adding a large capacitance to the output of a shunt regulator is not a good idea...
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