Yes.
Wow, thanks for the question and comment...!!! it gave me the idea to do the test I should have done since long time but was too lazy to do (or maybe it was too obvious!) :
I just fitted back the Legato I/V and took one phase to play in SE mode... guess what... I hear the buzz too!
I think the search is close to the end for me... seems the buzz is "built-in" the analog part of the DAC.... (but I need to do more tests to be sure.. or maybe the DAC does not like to be unevenly loaded...)
(and since I HATE searching for ground loops, next step for me could be...: try an XCEN or Build a second F2J or F1J
Is it SO bad this time with your system?
What I have seems totally different to what you describe.
My problem is a faint buzz (think about "ground loop issues" type of buzz), I can hear it only when placing my ear close to my relatively high efficiency 95dB speakers, and when I had 680R I/V resistors it was much worse.. Now I have 100R and it's much lower level (of course...)
I can't say I compared accurately.. too many parameters and I did not do analytical listening.
I tried in mono balanced on a F2J, and just before the test I was listening in SE with an OpAmp Bal/SE conversion.
Probably I could say pure SEN in SE by taking only one phase was the best... but with the buzz, it's definitely not a satisfying solution for me..
Cheers
Fred
WHAT !?
Pulling the leg of a Frenchman and not expecting him to react ?!
I say this should be forbidden by the rules of this forum !
> what are you using with the SEN as an output buffer ?
I don't use one myself.
But if anyone needs one then of course there is the Joachim Gerhard Filter Buffer for the purpose.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/216669-joachim-gerhard-filter-buffer-es9022.html
Patrick
I don't use one myself.
But if anyone needs one then of course there is the Joachim Gerhard Filter Buffer for the purpose.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/216669-joachim-gerhard-filter-buffer-es9022.html
Patrick
Hi guys, I have a Buffalo III, dual mono and a pair of Sen, I just thought to call in and support the thread.
My implementation is a little poor and amateurish, lots of twisted wire but hey it make great sounds and I still believe its far from finished.
I have to say I had a noise problem, well one or two at least, but for me as a novice it was not to be unexpected, I did plenty of things wrong as my build progressed but was helped along the way buy some good guys, you know who you are so take a bow gents.
For me initial noise was caused by just plainly doing things wrong but hey non electronics guys can play too?
Final noise eradication was gained by adding ferrite beads to the Sabre current output and 10k bleeds to earth (PE) on the Sen 0v outputs.
Currently preferred configuration is single ended and its been a good improvement for my system which is now sublime.
Just waiting for Xcen now as I believe balanced operation will bring more gains, but for me balanced with a Ballsie lite does not perform as well as single ended so high expectation on the Xcen.
Thanks for making this available Patrick and thanks to all who have helped me along the way.
My implementation is a little poor and amateurish, lots of twisted wire but hey it make great sounds and I still believe its far from finished.
I have to say I had a noise problem, well one or two at least, but for me as a novice it was not to be unexpected, I did plenty of things wrong as my build progressed but was helped along the way buy some good guys, you know who you are so take a bow gents.
For me initial noise was caused by just plainly doing things wrong but hey non electronics guys can play too?
Final noise eradication was gained by adding ferrite beads to the Sabre current output and 10k bleeds to earth (PE) on the Sen 0v outputs.
Currently preferred configuration is single ended and its been a good improvement for my system which is now sublime.
Just waiting for Xcen now as I believe balanced operation will bring more gains, but for me balanced with a Ballsie lite does not perform as well as single ended so high expectation on the Xcen.
Thanks for making this available Patrick and thanks to all who have helped me along the way.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi
I've changed my layout and put my SEN boards to either side of the Buffalo board, in the same plane, close to the grounded chassis bottom, as discussed above. No buzz; I've played with the wiring To try and re-induce it- with no success. May just be chance that I've chosen a stable layout, and that the side to side arrangement is no panacea- but I tentatively conclude it's preferable to the stacked arrangement- and, as Patrick has explained, there are good theoretical reasons to support this. Whatever- I'm a happy listener again!
Well, nearly- I need to shorten the SPDIF input wiring paths (the switches were arranged to suit the raised board) and to sort out my RJ45 DSD input, which no longer works (probably as I modified the socket rather brutally to gain some space).
Does anyone know a source of solderable RJ45 chassis sockets- not IDC types which accept wires directly?
Thanks
Paul N
I've changed my layout and put my SEN boards to either side of the Buffalo board, in the same plane, close to the grounded chassis bottom, as discussed above. No buzz; I've played with the wiring To try and re-induce it- with no success. May just be chance that I've chosen a stable layout, and that the side to side arrangement is no panacea- but I tentatively conclude it's preferable to the stacked arrangement- and, as Patrick has explained, there are good theoretical reasons to support this. Whatever- I'm a happy listener again!
Well, nearly- I need to shorten the SPDIF input wiring paths (the switches were arranged to suit the raised board) and to sort out my RJ45 DSD input, which no longer works (probably as I modified the socket rather brutally to gain some space).
Does anyone know a source of solderable RJ45 chassis sockets- not IDC types which accept wires directly?
Thanks
Paul N
Attachments
Hi Patrick
Yes. Though I can't that all side by side implementations would be problem free, mine is at the moment. Personally given the problems I've had with stacked arrangement, and the (now) obvious (theoretical) greater susceptibility of that layout to rf problems, I'll be sticking with the side by side arrangement in future.
Paul
Yes. Though I can't that all side by side implementations would be problem free, mine is at the moment. Personally given the problems I've had with stacked arrangement, and the (now) obvious (theoretical) greater susceptibility of that layout to rf problems, I'll be sticking with the side by side arrangement in future.
Paul
OMG, thst must be a part of project on Electronic warfare ? How many watts does it emits?
No wonder opamps work bad in these conditions.
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OMG, thst must be a part of project on Electronic warfare ? How many watts does it emits?
No wonder opamps work bad in these conditions.
Its just a pair of Buffalo, Arduino and eighten regulators four of which are hungry shunts as most Buffalo builds have the remainder are linier so harly any more power than a standard build, looks messy because most regulators are hard against the Buffalos with short wiring.
Well, maybe I used wrong term. Mayby "radiates" suites here better. But, anyway, with such layout your dac will radiate and recieve tons of RF garbage. DAC contains very high speed clock signals, with rise times orders if 5 nsec, it tends to spred upon any wire it "sees" around. Things are especially scary because you are using sabre, which has very righ output current - around 10 mA. Output current contains EM spectrum up to GHz range. Any power amp will not be happy to see it on its input .
Another problem is separate i/u and dac boards, one of the worst things you can do to delta-sigma converter because abovementioned HF modulation. The worther might be only using one output in a couple. By design, delta-sigma dac might be considered high-speed digital chip, with lots of digital logic: digital filer, ASRC in case of Sabre, DS modulator. All this logic emits RF noise, but it is common to I+ and I-. To remove it, stage for a substraction should be used.
Personally I ended few times with layout like that. Every time I tried to compare them with my Dell laptom build in sound, and it was better, especyally after some filtering. Of course, I can not extrapolate anything anywhere
. Another problem is separate i/u and dac boards, one of the worst things you can do to delta-sigma converter because abovementioned HF modulation. The worther might be only using one output in a couple. By design, delta-sigma dac might be considered high-speed digital chip, with lots of digital logic: digital filer, ASRC in case of Sabre, DS modulator. All this logic emits RF noise, but it is common to I+ and I-. To remove it, stage for a substraction should be used.
Personally I ended few times with layout like that. Every time I tried to compare them with my Dell laptom build in sound, and it was better, especyally after some filtering. Of course, I can not extrapolate anything anywhere