i'm glad others picked up the baton, I resisted replying since my posts seem to often be mistaken as unreasonable or biased lately. anyone who needs an official schematic for the clock board to see the circuit (the ONLY contributor to jitter at the output of fifo) should perhaps think about other fields of endeavor than trying to do better... there are 2 devices plus the power supply that contribute to output jitter, yet some stubbornly continue to fret about signal components that are not there....
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That's your answer right there, Ian.
You make the vast majority of this community extremely happy. People ordering again and again can only be a good sign.
And, of course, there are a few members who (allegedly) are not satisfied by your work, info you provide etc. They could always opt out, read other threads or something. Them sticking around probably shows they're not as unhappy as they'd like us to think or - even worse - may have some vested interest in bashing your project..
Anyhow, please keep up the good work.
Thanks guys.
I thinks I need pay more understanding to Andrea_mori, though the way he keeps asking.... I'm OK with him. I think he keeps same hobby with us as an enthusiasm audiophile. He is going deep into he project and eager to know the measurement result to ensure his design. The only thing is I'm not willing public some measurement result for the well known reason. If he need, I'll provide helps on his project as I could for sure.
Have a nice weekend.
Ian
I am sorry that my post to soundcheck seems to have brought on this whole situation. That soundcheck was unable to see what I tried to make absolutely clear is a mystery to me.
For reference, if anyone is under any delusion about the real cost of these type of devices please take a look at the commercial cost of Empirical Audio devices that achieve similar end result through slightly different approach as acknowledged here. Steve Nugent, the designer at Empiracle has posted in this thread very early on acknowledging that Ian had produced a very good design and concept.
I consider that Ian has not covered the hardware cost of prototypes + the devices he has 'sold'. He has told us that much, clearly. That is, in effect, he has valued his time and intellectual property provided in the FPGA and control chips as nill. For this reason myself and others have at times tried to provide answers when questions come up because it is simply not practical for one person to be continuously available to respond to these enquiries. I also tried to collate some of the knowledge stored posts throughout this thread into a wiki, simply because it seemed outrageous that Ian was spending time repeating answers on top of the many hours he has spent researching and designing and organising logistics for distributing these.
Ian, there are many people do absolutely appreciate what you have shared with us. If it comes to it and you feel forced to take a more commercial route with the future of your project; I will gladly recall that I was lucky enough to share in the birth of this endeavour.
Cheers,
Chris
For reference, if anyone is under any delusion about the real cost of these type of devices please take a look at the commercial cost of Empirical Audio devices that achieve similar end result through slightly different approach as acknowledged here. Steve Nugent, the designer at Empiracle has posted in this thread very early on acknowledging that Ian had produced a very good design and concept.
I consider that Ian has not covered the hardware cost of prototypes + the devices he has 'sold'. He has told us that much, clearly. That is, in effect, he has valued his time and intellectual property provided in the FPGA and control chips as nill. For this reason myself and others have at times tried to provide answers when questions come up because it is simply not practical for one person to be continuously available to respond to these enquiries. I also tried to collate some of the knowledge stored posts throughout this thread into a wiki, simply because it seemed outrageous that Ian was spending time repeating answers on top of the many hours he has spent researching and designing and organising logistics for distributing these.
Ian, there are many people do absolutely appreciate what you have shared with us. If it comes to it and you feel forced to take a more commercial route with the future of your project; I will gladly recall that I was lucky enough to share in the birth of this endeavour.
Cheers,
Chris
Si570 Clock Board Users Guide V1.0
Thanks Chris, I'm so sorry for did do any job to the wiki so far.
Here the Si570 Clock Board users guide V1.0 is ready. You can put it on wiki now.
Thanks
Have a nice weekend.
Ian
Thanks Chris, I'm so sorry for did do any job to the wiki so far
.Here the Si570 Clock Board users guide V1.0 is ready. You can put it on wiki now.
Thanks
Have a nice weekend.
Ian
Same feeling here Ian, my own FIFO project two years ago set me back for 100$ worth of parts from Digikey. Parts still in my electronic cabinet nicely going toward obsolescence. On my own this FIFO project (all boards) could have cost me easily a 2K-3K$ in R&D. Equivalent performing devices on the market cost from 400$ to 1500$. Ok they are final products but you don't get the flexibility and tweaking possibility given by Ian FIFO.
I think their is also a confusion about DIY projects and open source projects. Back in the 80s Heatkit was a commercial endenvor and a DIY provider...
Jitter measurements are a important guide to make development decision but they required costly and very well calibrated equipment operated by skillfully technicians. And even then the results could be challenged.
Like some one said not so long ago :
If you believe you can make a difference, not just in politics, in public ... prepared to accept that you are not going to get 100 percent approval
I realized some member misunderstood my posts.
Ian,
I totally respect your work and your project, I said several times that's a good project and, again, I would thank you to share it with the community.
I'm an hobbyst, not a professional, but I know how many time is needed to develop any audio device. At the beginning of the 90's I developed an integrated amplifier, a commercial project, and I remember it take almost 2 years and many sleepless nights. So I understand when you feel frustrated because you feel that your work is not appreciated. This is not my case, I appreciate a lot
Anyway, you have all the rights to shift the project to the market place, this is a decision that belongs only to you, and any decision you'll take, will have the greatest respect from me.
But facts must follow words, so from now I'll send you private e-mail about questions you won't share in this thread, and I'll thank you in advance if you'll spend your time to reply.
Sincerely
Andrea
When I receied the first Fifo GB, I thought it was a gift for the price I paid, I mean I've seen but never owned such high quality digital work, this is the kind of thing you see in 5 figure DAC's.
I guess though I am one that hope's Ian does move to the commercial section and makes an all in one board digital side DAC, of course 8x PCM1704
I guess though I am one that hope's Ian does move to the commercial section and makes an all in one board digital side DAC, of course 8x PCM1704
erm reckon we could lose the pressure for Ian to satisfy your curiosity? I know you are not piling on the pressure, but lots of continuous suggestions, little pressures and some larger ones are exactly why Ian is getting pissed off.
it will not be $20 a piece, EVERYONE has trouble measuring at this level. even for those with highest grade equipment its not a simple task.
it will not be $20 a piece, EVERYONE has trouble measuring at this level. even for those with highest grade equipment its not a simple task.
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From the Si570 Clock Board guide
Ian
From the Si570 Clock Board guide:
>This LDO board has been determined to be one of the best ways so far to power the Si570 Clock Board.<
Do you implying that powering up the clock with the LDO board give subjectively (in your setup) a better sound then directly powering the clock from Lipefo4 3.2V Bat or simply that the LDO powering is a best solution overall, if we take convenience in account?
Great manual by the way, thanks for all the info in the tips sections
Ian
From the Si570 Clock Board guide:
>This LDO board has been determined to be one of the best ways so far to power the Si570 Clock Board.<
Do you implying that powering up the clock with the LDO board give subjectively (in your setup) a better sound then directly powering the clock from Lipefo4 3.2V Bat or simply that the LDO powering is a best solution overall, if we take convenience in account?
Great manual by the way, thanks for all the info in the tips sections
Well first of all there is no such thing as a 3.2V LiPFE04 battery, batteries don't have regulation their voltage changes as they are used, from 3.6V down to 3.2V.
Second what do you think, do you want to mess around with batteries or use a LDO regulator that you never have to worry about charging or installing backwards and frying your pcb. Batteries are for OCD types like qusp
Basically if you have to ask go with the regulator.
Well first of all there is no such thing as a 3.2V LiPFE04 battery, batteries don't have regulation their voltage changes as they are used, from 3.6V down to 3.2V.
Second what do you think, do you want to mess around with batteries or use a LDO regulator that you never have to worry about charging or installing backwards and frying your pcb. Batteries are for OCD types like qusp
Basically if you have to ask go with the regulator.
Hi Regal,
1: your right but 3.2V was a cut and paste from the manual
and also the nominal voltage regular showed for those type of cell2: your also right I would prefer to use LDO but up to today I always prefer sonicly battery powered devices when it come to low power audio
This is why I asked. I will probable buy a couple or more of LDO board from Ian anyway
The Agilent E5500 series can easily measure offset frequency from the carrier below 1 hz. Please convert it in jitter,a few fs.
The only problem is the cost of that such equipment.
yeah its as easy as buying the equipment....
Demian, who has much experience with such things, has already commented on the difficulty of such measurements, if you think its easy just because you have the right equipment, you are fooling yourself. did I say it couldnt be done? you should read more carefully
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ahh yes, that old measurement... I wonder when people will stop referring to these measures as relevant?
the late great low noise Guru Jim Williams of Linear Technologies always used and recommended batteries for verifying noise performance of regulators and voltage references and that was before more modern lower impedance cells were available. do you really suggest that he was getting performance like you link?
most of the measures for battery noise that are relevant to audio are old and/or produced by companies that sell regulators.... i'm yet to see something using technologies any more modern than SLA or perhaps NIMH (not sure if ive even seen that, cant remember)
also the noise of batteries can be very load dependent, clocks and low current class A or CCS loads arent terribly effected by this. there are advantages to both ways, regulators can get lower impedance, but then you can just add some caps or an LCR to the battery to get the noise down and improve transient response. its a power source, use it competently.
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