Asynchronous I2S FIFO project, an ultimate weapon to fight the jitter - Page 239 - diyAudio
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Old 16th February 2013, 02:15 AM   #2381
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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i'm glad others picked up the baton, I resisted replying since my posts seem to often be mistaken as unreasonable or biased lately. anyone who needs an official schematic for the clock board to see the circuit (the ONLY contributor to jitter at the output of fifo) should perhaps think about other fields of endeavor than trying to do better... there are 2 devices plus the power supply that contribute to output jitter, yet some stubbornly continue to fret about signal components that are not there....

Last edited by qusp; 16th February 2013 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 16th February 2013, 02:35 AM   #2382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman View Post
That's your answer right there, Ian.

You make the vast majority of this community extremely happy. People ordering again and again can only be a good sign.
And, of course, there are a few members who (allegedly) are not satisfied by your work, info you provide etc. They could always opt out, read other threads or something. Them sticking around probably shows they're not as unhappy as they'd like us to think or - even worse - may have some vested interest in bashing your project..

Anyhow, please keep up the good work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed linssen View Post
It is a pain that a lot of forums of really importance for the DIY community end up like this. It is never because of stimulating criticisisme or positive input!
I do not respect the attitude of the complainers and I hope that people like Ian have the power to continue were they are busy with.
Like sharing knowledge that brings a lot of us a litlle further in our hobbies.
I sincerely hope GB4 will not be the last thing Ian will give us.( All he did untill this moment has not anything to do with commerce btw!)
Ed
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterRogers View Post
+++1. I was troubled by your post Andrea; It struck me as unfair and unappreciative - regardless of the repeated assertions otherwise. I started a post no fewer than 3 or 4 times, only to erase it, calm down and consider this situation.

Bottom line; some will never get it. This project feels very much like the a man who make something rare and valuable available for little money to those who otherwise would likely not be able to acquire or afford it. Rather than appreciate their good fortune and demonstrate their appreciation with help, gratitude and humility - demands are made and the giver goes on to regret the gift.

And make no mistake; though Ian has charged for these components - they are a gift. It's been long established that the R&D and manufacturing costs have NEVER come close to covering the expense. Further, these components are simply not available to us otherwise. If those were retail, the price would reflect all of the overhead necessary to satisfy these demands on time and resources.

Sorry for the soapbox all. Ian - I echo the encouragement of others; do not let the attitude or demands of some rob your joy in this hobby, or drown out the gratitude and appreciation most of us have for your time and effort. Your work has elevated my knowledge and enjoyment. However you decide to proceed, you'll have my support and gratitude.
Thanks guys.

I thinks I need pay more understanding to Andrea_mori, though the way he keeps asking.... I'm OK with him. I think he keeps same hobby with us as an enthusiasm audiophile. He is going deep into he project and eager to know the measurement result to ensure his design. The only thing is I'm not willing public some measurement result for the well known reason. If he need, I'll provide helps on his project as I could for sure.

Have a nice weekend.

Ian
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Old 16th February 2013, 02:43 AM   #2383
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I am sorry that my post to soundcheck seems to have brought on this whole situation. That soundcheck was unable to see what I tried to make absolutely clear is a mystery to me.

For reference, if anyone is under any delusion about the real cost of these type of devices please take a look at the commercial cost of Empirical Audio devices that achieve similar end result through slightly different approach as acknowledged here. Steve Nugent, the designer at Empiracle has posted in this thread very early on acknowledging that Ian had produced a very good design and concept.

I consider that Ian has not covered the hardware cost of prototypes + the devices he has 'sold'. He has told us that much, clearly. That is, in effect, he has valued his time and intellectual property provided in the FPGA and control chips as nill. For this reason myself and others have at times tried to provide answers when questions come up because it is simply not practical for one person to be continuously available to respond to these enquiries. I also tried to collate some of the knowledge stored posts throughout this thread into a wiki, simply because it seemed outrageous that Ian was spending time repeating answers on top of the many hours he has spent researching and designing and organising logistics for distributing these.

Ian, there are many people do absolutely appreciate what you have shared with us. If it comes to it and you feel forced to take a more commercial route with the future of your project; I will gladly recall that I was lucky enough to share in the birth of this endeavour.

Cheers,
Chris
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Old 16th February 2013, 03:14 AM   #2384
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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yes and fifo has evolved since then
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Old 16th February 2013, 03:17 AM   #2385
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
yes and fifo has evolved since then
Precisely, that was post #57 of the thread!!
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Old 16th February 2013, 03:29 AM   #2386
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Default Si570 Clock Board Users Guide V1.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by hochopeper View Post
I am sorry that my post to soundcheck seems to have brought on this whole situation. That soundcheck was unable to see what I tried to make absolutely clear is a mystery to me.

For reference, if anyone is under any delusion about the real cost of these type of devices please take a look at the commercial cost of Empirical Audio devices that achieve similar end result through slightly different approach as acknowledged here. Steve Nugent, the designer at Empiracle has posted in this thread very early on acknowledging that Ian had produced a very good design and concept.

I consider that Ian has not covered the hardware cost of prototypes + the devices he has 'sold'. He has told us that much, clearly. That is, in effect, he has valued his time and intellectual property provided in the FPGA and control chips as nill. For this reason myself and others have at times tried to provide answers when questions come up because it is simply not practical for one person to be continuously available to respond to these enquiries. I also tried to collate some of the knowledge stored posts throughout this thread into a wiki, simply because it seemed outrageous that Ian was spending time repeating answers on top of the many hours he has spent researching and designing and organising logistics for distributing these.

Ian, there are many people do absolutely appreciate what you have shared with us. If it comes to it and you feel forced to take a more commercial route with the future of your project; I will gladly recall that I was lucky enough to share in the birth of this endeavour.

Cheers,
Chris
Thanks Chris, I'm so sorry for did do any job to the wiki so far.

Here the Si570 Clock Board users guide V1.0 is ready. You can put it on wiki now.

Thanks

Have a nice weekend.

Ian
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Si570ClockBoardUsersGuide.pdf (948.1 KB, 65 views)
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Old 16th February 2013, 11:07 AM   #2387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hochopeper View Post
I am sorry that my post to soundcheck seems to have brought on this whole situation. That soundcheck was unable to see what I tried to make absolutely clear is a mystery to me.

For reference, if anyone is under any delusion about the real cost of these type of devices please take a look at the commercial cost of Empirical Audio devices that achieve similar end result through slightly different approach as acknowledged here. Steve Nugent, the designer at Empiracle has posted in this thread very early on acknowledging that Ian had produced a very good design and concept.

I consider that Ian has not covered the hardware cost of prototypes + the devices he has 'sold'. He has told us that much, clearly. That is, in effect, he has valued his time and intellectual property provided in the FPGA and control chips as nill. For this reason myself and others have at times tried to provide answers when questions come up because it is simply not practical for one person to be continuously available to respond to these enquiries. I also tried to collate some of the knowledge stored posts throughout this thread into a wiki, simply because it seemed outrageous that Ian was spending time repeating answers on top of the many hours he has spent researching and designing and organising logistics for distributing these.

Ian, there are many people do absolutely appreciate what you have shared with us. If it comes to it and you feel forced to take a more commercial route with the future of your project; I will gladly recall that I was lucky enough to share in the birth of this endeavour.

Cheers,
Chris
Same feeling here Ian, my own FIFO project two years ago set me back for 100$ worth of parts from Digikey. Parts still in my electronic cabinet nicely going toward obsolescence. On my own this FIFO project (all boards) could have cost me easily a 2K-3K$ in R&D. Equivalent performing devices on the market cost from 400$ to 1500$. Ok they are final products but you don't get the flexibility and tweaking possibility given by Ian FIFO.

I think their is also a confusion about DIY projects and open source projects. Back in the 80s Heatkit was a commercial endenvor and a DIY provider...

Jitter measurements are a important guide to make development decision but they required costly and very well calibrated equipment operated by skillfully technicians. And even then the results could be challenged.

Like some one said not so long ago :

If you believe you can make a difference, not just in politics, in public ... prepared to accept that you are not going to get 100 percent approval
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Old 16th February 2013, 12:14 PM   #2388
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Originally Posted by iancanada View Post
Thanks guys.

I thinks I need pay more understanding to Andrea_mori, though the way he keeps asking.... I'm OK with him. I think he keeps same hobby with us as an enthusiasm audiophile. He is going deep into he project and eager to know the measurement result to ensure his design. The only thing is I'm not willing public some measurement result for the well known reason. If he need, I'll provide helps on his project as I could for sure.

Have a nice weekend.

Ian
I realized some member misunderstood my posts.

Ian,

I totally respect your work and your project, I said several times that's a good project and, again, I would thank you to share it with the community.
I'm an hobbyst, not a professional, but I know how many time is needed to develop any audio device. At the beginning of the 90's I developed an integrated amplifier, a commercial project, and I remember it take almost 2 years and many sleepless nights. So I understand when you feel frustrated because you feel that your work is not appreciated. This is not my case, I appreciate a lot
Anyway, you have all the rights to shift the project to the market place, this is a decision that belongs only to you, and any decision you'll take, will have the greatest respect from me.

But facts must follow words, so from now I'll send you private e-mail about questions you won't share in this thread, and I'll thank you in advance if you'll spend your time to reply.

Sincerely
Andrea
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Old 16th February 2013, 12:29 PM   #2389
regal is offline regal  United States
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When I receied the first Fifo GB, I thought it was a gift for the price I paid, I mean I've seen but never owned such high quality digital work, this is the kind of thing you see in 5 figure DAC's.

I guess though I am one that hope's Ian does move to the commercial section and makes an all in one board digital side DAC, of course 8x PCM1704
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Old 16th February 2013, 02:04 PM   #2390
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Andrea, Ian, just a any idea here why not make a group buy to specified the FIFO and send it to a qualified evaluation LAB? I would surely spend a 20$ just for the fun of it.
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