An apparently very good DAC design, at a reasonable price. $450/ $350

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Luke

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Joined 2001
I really don't know how these small shops make any profit building these things. If I did a DIY of a Schiit product I would pay as much in parts alone. I get the economies of scale thing, but boutique design hand built quality products in USA, they are amazing and clever guys.
 
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Jack Caldwell

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Joined 2005
HologramAcoustics.com
Cheap parts?

qusp said:
and unfortunately, more opportunity for cheap part substitution..... not as a rule, but the rep isnt unfairly earned
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Yup... all anyone has to do is ask John Curl and the Parasound gang how many times their chinese vendors have substituted cheaper parts on the sly, regardless of contractual stipulations.

Apparently it takes many, many iterations to be able to get the final product anywhere close to the original. And this with established, "reputable" manufacturing partners.

I'm sure there are a few stellar exceptions to this generalization, but how are we consumers and DIYers supposed to be able tell without taking off the covers? And how to systematically detect if it's a counterfeit or "2nd" quality part from the reject bin?

All in all, if it's as bad as the above implies, maybe the decision to make it in the USA can be justified on purely economic terms, at least for a company which is in the start-up "boutique" phase. It would be disastrous to order 500 or 1000 DACs and take delivery only to find out that they were built with sub-standard parts. I Schiit you not.
 
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SoNic_real_one

Member
Joined 2008
The product looks like any other Chinese DAC on eBay. By itself it might not be bad, but there is no guarantee what you get. The electrolytic capacitors used on DAC board look bad IMO, like any low-ESR PC board capacitor, not suited for audio.
As for the "32 bit conversion" it's just dust in buyers eyes. AKM4399 has worse performance than older "24 bit only" DAC's: with THD+N -105dB is good for 18 bit resolution.
 
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c2cthomas

c2cthomas

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Joined 2006
Paid Member
Jack Caldwell said:
All in all, if it's as bad as the above implies, maybe the decision to make it in the USA can be justified on purely economic terms, at least for a company which is in the start-up "boutique" phase. It would be disastrous to order 500 or 1000 DACs and take delivery only to find out that they were built with sub-standard parts. I Schiit you not.
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As an old QC type and production chief I can guarantee that the cost of early failures (within warranty period) or reworking failed units will break your company very quickly. If you get over 2% failure rates you will get into financial trouble very fast and your reputation with customers and clients will suffer greatly. There is a lot of truth for that old statement that one customers experience with you or your products affects the buying decisions of ten others. ;)
 
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SoNic_real_one

Member
Joined 2008
Asian manufacturers found that is no need to worry for that. Just change the name of the cheap company every year :)
Culture already accepts the fact that electronic producs should last only one year. People get bored easily now, they expect "software updates" and "firmware fixes" constantly.
 
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chris719

Member
Joined 2004
SoNic_real_one said:
The product looks like any other Chinese DAC on eBay. By itself it might not be bad, but there is no guarantee what you get. The electrolytic capacitors used on DAC board look bad IMO, like any low-ESR PC board capacitor, not suited for audio.
As for the "32 bit conversion" it's just dust in buyers eyes. AKM4399 has worse performance than older "24 bit only" DAC's: with THD+N -105dB is good for 18 bit resolution.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with solid polymer electrolytics for power supply use? Do you think the ESR is too low?
 
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Luke

Member
Joined 2001
Jack Caldwell said:
Yup... all anyone has to do is ask John Curl and the Parasound gang how many times their chinese vendors have substituted cheaper parts on the sly, regardless of contractual stipulations.

Apparently it takes many, many iterations to be able to get the final product anywhere close to the original. And this with established, "reputable" manufacturing partners.

I'm sure there are a few stellar exceptions to this generalization, but how are we consumers and DIYers supposed to be able tell without taking off the covers? And how to systematically detect if it's a counterfeit or "2nd" quality part from the reject bin?

All in all, if it's as bad as the above implies, maybe the decision to make it in the USA can be justified on purely economic terms, at least for a company which is in the start-up "boutique" phase. It would be disastrous to order 500 or 1000 DACs and take delivery only to find out that they were built with sub-standard parts. I Schiit you not.
Click to expand...

Your actually talking about 95%* of everything on the planet that is manufactured. I don't seem to notice the quality flaws you speak off.

*Random figure but probably not far from truth:)
 
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