Hi folks, and a VERY Happy New Year to you all
I've decided I am going to use the schematic posted below for the output stage on my DAC - looks simple & elegant which usually bodes well for good sound quality. Would any of those 2sk170s/2sj74s need to be matched, and of certain grades to work optimally? Thank you.
Cheers,
- John
Hello John ,
Yes the schematic is simple but i burned out the AK4396 !!!!
I don't really advise you to try it !!!!
Serge
Well I disagree Dario.I have used FC's in many a project including this DAC and have no reason to believe they are unsuitable in any way for general power supply filtering and local decoupling purposes.
I suppose we all hear and don't hear, coupled with my own preferences, IMHO, the best way to find what is best to you is to try it out, if possible.
I admittedly started with Dario's mod list but differentiated judiciary, mostly due to the parts that I have in hand (Panny FC's and Silmic II) and what I could order in one shot, and partially my own believe like I don't need to use a 63VDC cap in a more than 20VDC circuit.
Recall that in a few post back, I planned to take the output from the AK4696 directly without LPF and opamp. I spent some time in the last few days to try out 2 configurations:
1. Output transformer (a cheap pair that I have around, Edcor PW600/600).
2. Capacitor out (Silmic II 10 uF // CDE Vitamin Q 0.47 uF // 6200pF FT2 Telfon).
Since I don't use the opamp, I only use a Radioshack 120V/12.6VAC 3A transformer which is more than enough to power the board.
After 3 days of extensive listening, my preference goes to the #1. Compare the 2 alternatives, the cap out just doesn't have the clarity of the mid and the high of the OT's, and this can only be better with the Cinemag's that I need to find out where they are hidden in my pile of junks However, there is a down side of the OT's, they are very unforgiving. Any artifacts in the recordings are simply amplified, whereas the cap-out masks that in a nice manner. This was very obviously when I listened to some so called remastering from Hong Kong for some recordings from 30 - 40 years ago. To me, a little coloration actually helps.
I have to say either one turned out quite well, and I can listen to either one comfortably. For now, I choose the cap-out, mainly due to the fact that the chassis that I use is simply too small accommodate the OT's.
Happy New Year and Happy Listening to All!!
I admittedly started with Dario's mod list but differentiated judiciary, mostly due to the parts that I have in hand (Panny FC's and Silmic II) and what I could order in one shot, and partially my own believe like I don't need to use a 63VDC cap in a more than 20VDC circuit.
Recall that in a few post back, I planned to take the output from the AK4696 directly without LPF and opamp. I spent some time in the last few days to try out 2 configurations:
1. Output transformer (a cheap pair that I have around, Edcor PW600/600).
2. Capacitor out (Silmic II 10 uF // CDE Vitamin Q 0.47 uF // 6200pF FT2 Telfon).
Since I don't use the opamp, I only use a Radioshack 120V/12.6VAC 3A transformer which is more than enough to power the board.
After 3 days of extensive listening, my preference goes to the #1. Compare the 2 alternatives, the cap out just doesn't have the clarity of the mid and the high of the OT's, and this can only be better with the Cinemag's that I need to find out where they are hidden in my pile of junks
However, there is a down side of the OT's, they are very unforgiving. Any artifacts in the recordings are simply amplified, whereas the cap-out masks that in a nice manner. This was very obviously when I listened to some so called remastering from Hong Kong for some recordings from 30 - 40 years ago. To me, a little coloration actually helps.I have to say either one turned out quite well, and I can listen to either one comfortably. For now, I choose the cap-out, mainly due to the fact that the chassis that I use is simply too small accommodate the OT's.
Happy New Year and Happy Listening to All!!
Well, maybe I should clarify and elaborate...
FCs are good quality caps and when used in place of standard elcos at first glance they're a BIG upgrade, they sound:
- full bodied
- nice and slappy bass
- great sense of rithm
But the most annoying problem is that sort of high frequency glare, harsness, that it's not present in other caps but common to most SMPS caps (also Nichicon PWs have it).
An exception are Elna RJHs, also SMPS caps, nice and balanced.
I've tried (and used for some time) FCs in a variety of applications, at the end they were invariably replaced with other caps...
Also in the MINI2496 I've tried them for the big supply caps positions and for opamp decoupling... as always they sounded harsh to my ears.
Maybe I'm overly sensitive to harshness but strictly IMHO, in my experience and in my system, I consider FCs not suitable for high quality audio.
I agree with Dario. I find Panasonic FC to have woolly i'll defined bass, grainy midrange, and the highs are not extended. They seem to compress the sound into a mid band.
If people must for some reason use Panasonic, they have a current production "audio grade" capacitor. It is called Panasonic ECA series. But I have not tried it.
FC seems to have a cult status around here which IMO is totally unjustified considering their very average sound quality.
It surprises me that people constantly insist on using the FC when there are other much better options available for just a few dollars more.
If you cant get a better quality cap locally, try parts connexion. They sell Nichicon and Elna capacitors, and more. The parts are genuine, their prices are very reasonable, and worldwide shipping for small quantities (light weight) seems to be around $5-6. Really there is no excuse for using average quality capacitors if you are trying to get the "best" sound you can.
If people must for some reason use Panasonic, they have a current production "audio grade" capacitor. It is called Panasonic ECA series. But I have not tried it.
FC seems to have a cult status around here which IMO is totally unjustified considering their very average sound quality.
It surprises me that people constantly insist on using the FC when there are other much better options available for just a few dollars more.
If you cant get a better quality cap locally, try parts connexion. They sell Nichicon and Elna capacitors, and more. The parts are genuine, their prices are very reasonable, and worldwide shipping for small quantities (light weight) seems to be around $5-6. Really there is no excuse for using average quality capacitors if you are trying to get the "best" sound you can.
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Hi guys. Does anyone know if there is much of a difference between these two boards/components besides the price?
Assembled DAC 2496 (AK4396) CS8416 DAC With Transformer--new | eBay
Assembled AK4396 DAC 2496 CS8416 24BIT 192K DAC Decoder Board + Transformer | eBay
Thanks
Assembled DAC 2496 (AK4396) CS8416 DAC With Transformer--new | eBay
Assembled AK4396 DAC 2496 CS8416 24BIT 192K DAC Decoder Board + Transformer | eBay
Thanks
Based on my previous experience, the pictures don't always have the exact parts as the deliverable. I purchased one assembled and one kit, the parts are very much the same grade.
Since it is likely to replace some parts in the future, I will go with the cheaper one as both sellers have similar rating.
Good luck!!
Since it is likely to replace some parts in the future, I will go with the cheaper one as both sellers have similar rating.
Good luck!!
Hello John ,
Yes the schematic is simple but i burned out the AK4396 !!!!
I don't really advise you to try it !!!!
Serge
Yikes!!!
OK in that case I'll steer well clear then
Cheers,
- John
I agree completely - I've even used them as DC blockers in the input of a couple of amps (whilst waiting for film caps) and to be honest I thought they belied their budget price. I didnt hear any 'compression' or grainyness - sounded very organic to me in fact after a few days running in, quite close to Black Gate Standard...
I guess we all hear differently, and have varying taste. That's the joy of DIY though isn't it - we can tailor the sound to our own preferences
Hi
What type of caps are you using in the PS section for the DAC? Looking at the color it seems to be Suncon(sanyo)?
/Bjarne
What parts of the power supply can be modified when using the ditrect out, with a capacitor?
I have now this setup so the op amp section not being used, but I left all the components on the pcb in place.
If you could also give some more info on how you made it possible to use one 12v transformer, that would be very helpfull.
LOL, 2012 wishful thinkingOkay. I was just hoping one of the sellers plagiarized ClaveFremen's BOM so that I had less to do
If they did, I guess the price would likely be doubled which may not be as appealing, and we, diyers, are likely to take it apart anyway
This reminded me one conversation with my wife about who was the sexiest movie star. Obviously, we didn't come to any agreement at allI agree completely - I've even used them as DC blockers in the input of a couple of amps (whilst waiting for film caps) and to be honest I thought they belied their budget price. I didnt hear any 'compression' or grainyness - sounded very organic to me in fact after a few days running in, quite close to Black Gate Standard...
I guess we all hear differently, and have varying taste. That's the joy of DIY though isn't it - we can tailor the sound to our own preferences
Attached 2 pictures to show how it is connected.
1st picture showed the 12VAC input. In order to do so, use Greg's picture as in post 958. Keep in mind, when you want to switch to use opamp, you will need to either remove this link or remove this transformer.
2nd picture shows how the caps are connected. Basically, I took the outputs from the L+ and R+. When the board is in the same orientation as in the picture, that will be the 1st and the 3rd of the 1K resistors from the LEFT.
Since I want some flexibilities,
1. I didn't solder the transformer into the fuse and the on/off switch. The
idea is that I can swap in my second board into the same chassis without
the soldering iron at all.
2. I soldered 4 header pins into the 1K resistors holes so that I can solder
and desolder from these spots so that I won't lift the trace from the board
by accident.
3. I soldered the other side of the cap to the board at the far side of the
2 1K resistors instead of directly into the RCA jacks, same reason as
#1. The 3 wires from the RCA's are connected to the board's screw on
connectors.
I hope this will help.
Attachments
Hi. I have tried 3 opamps with this kit: 5532, ad8066 and lme49720 - i get a buzzing sound from the speakers only when i use ad8066. the buzzing sound has a varying volume (always lower compared to music signal) and sometimes it is stronger on one channel than the other. Could that indicate an oscillation problem? The opamp caps are 100uf Cerafines and im using a 0.1uf BGnxHiQ across the power pins of AD8066 and LME49720.The kit is assembled using dario's BOM but there are some differences. Any input is appreciated
For those who using direct-out with dc-blocking cap as output stage, I recommend you to trial with decoupling and bypass caps on analog supply pins of AK4396. And I suggest you to not blindly following any boutique part recommendations.
In my tests, i see that decoupling cap is very critical on final sound behavior. Industrial type, high ripple caps are best in this place in my opinion. These caps are slightly bigger than their counterparts and even cheaper than "audio grade??" ones. My current setup employs 100nF Ceramic as bypass and 100uF/16v Nichicon PZ as decoupling. This combination smashed my previous favorite Elna SilmicII's.
In my tests, i see that decoupling cap is very critical on final sound behavior. Industrial type, high ripple caps are best in this place in my opinion. These caps are slightly bigger than their counterparts and even cheaper than "audio grade??" ones. My current setup employs 100nF Ceramic as bypass and 100uF/16v Nichicon PZ as decoupling. This combination smashed my previous favorite Elna SilmicII's.
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I do agree, in that position Silmics are not so good, in fact I'm recomending Cerafines there...
You might want to try military spec. tantalum caps on the outputs too (the metal bodied versions, not the cheap yellow or blue caps) - they really do sound quite special.