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DAC 2496 (AK4393) DAC KIT With CS8416+AK4393+5532
DAC 2496 (AK4393) DAC KIT With CS8416+AK4393+5532
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Old 9th June 2011, 04:32 PM   #171
terranigma is offline terranigma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaveFremen View Post
Why AKM bother to specify different filters for different DACs?

We agree about ultrasonic noise, it's just a fact, but since there's no noise to filter why the AK4396 filter is more rolled-off?
Don't struggle that much with the filters etc... Just listen the direct-out with blocking cap. Let your ears decide it..Then, if you feel opamps and filters are necessary again, then you can find for yourself a lot of brands/models of opamps and resistors/caps to struggle with.

Last edited by terranigma; 9th June 2011 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 9th June 2011, 07:57 PM   #172
Volterra is offline Volterra  Turkey
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Are these resistors 1/4 or 1/8? I am thinking to replace all with 1% ones.
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Old 9th June 2011, 09:35 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Volterra View Post
Are these resistors 1/4 or 1/8? I am thinking to replace all with 1% ones.
I suggest to only replace resistors on signal path. Wattage is not issue here. AKM recommending carbon film type resistors for output stage in application notes. I also noticed that carbon film resistors has better naturalness and resolution with these dacs. It's highly recommended. I suggest you to use good quality of resistors like Kiwame, AB.

Last edited by terranigma; 9th June 2011 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 9th June 2011, 10:15 PM   #174
ClaveFremen is offline ClaveFremen  Italy
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DAC 2496 (AK4393) DAC KIT With CS8416+AK4393+5532
This night I've compared the output of my stock Samsung BD-P2500 BR Blayer (which also uses AK4396 and his proper output stage from datasheet) with mine MINI2496 and , apart refinement due to mods, there are some differences:

  • The BD-P2500 has slightly lower volume
  • Highs frequencies volume is slightly different, not a big difference but the BD-P2500 was for sure more balanced
In the next days I'll mod also the Samsung with Panasonic ECHU SMD PPS caps for LPF and 100uF SMD solid elcos for AVDD and VCOM so the comparison should be more fair.

So, at the moment, seems that the AK4393 outstage used in the MINI2496 don't fits perfectly, but it's not a big difference, with AK4396 louder output and different on chip filtering.


Quote:
Originally Posted by terranigma View Post
I suggest to only replace resistors on signal path. Wattage is not issue here.
I do agree, anyway the stock resistors are 1/4 Watt

Quote:
Originally Posted by terranigma View Post
AKM recommending carbon film type resistors for output stage in application notes. I also noticed that carbon film resistors has better naturalness and resolution with these dacs. It's highly recommended.
I can't find this info on datasheets, can you please point me to the right document? Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by terranigma View Post
I suggest you to use good quality of resistors like Kiwame, AB.
Kiwames (or KOA SPR) don't fit, they're too big. Probably remaining in KOA CF1/4 are good substitues.

KOA CF1/4 sounds good, I've tried them in the MyRef, but PRPs are way better despite they're metal films.

PRPs sounds full like carbon films.

Regarding Allen Bradley they're also too big but mainly they're carbon composition, not carbon film and thus they've much more noise and will drift...
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Last edited by ClaveFremen; 9th June 2011 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 9th June 2011, 11:41 PM   #175
terranigma is offline terranigma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaveFremen View Post
I can't find this info on datasheets, can you please point me to the right document? Thanks
Ok, I'm a bit lazy:

AKM Basic Layout Tips Part 1 & 2 :

Google

Very useful documents for chip layout. I'm totally agree on Part2's "Resistors" section.

Last edited by terranigma; 9th June 2011 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 10th June 2011, 12:02 AM   #176
ClaveFremen is offline ClaveFremen  Italy
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DAC 2496 (AK4393) DAC KIT With CS8416+AK4393+5532
Quote:
Originally Posted by terranigma View Post
Very useful documents for chip layout. I'm totally agree on Part2's "Resistors" section.
I do agree, thanks
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Old 10th June 2011, 02:32 PM   #177
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Thanks Clave & Terranigma for the ideas that you suggest to us.

I have a AK4396 kit not assembled, so what is the best choice for testing it ?

1- direct coupling with output capacitor as Terranigma suggest us (please wich type, value and location in the schema)

2- modify the LP filter as Clave suggest us (value from your image, resistor type (https://www.buerklin.com/datenblaetter/E072400_TD.pdf) could be right? )

3- output transformer (please specs and cost)

I'm waiting your precious help

Thanks
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Old 10th June 2011, 03:07 PM   #178
Volterra is offline Volterra  Turkey
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I have measured all the stock resistors. The stock resistor measurements deviate from the expected values between 1 to 3 percent (most of the cases 3 percent). I have no electronics knowledge but if we think with straight logic, these deviations must effect the overall sound quality. I wonder if I am thinking right or not.
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Old 10th June 2011, 04:11 PM   #179
ClaveFremen is offline ClaveFremen  Italy
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DAC 2496 (AK4393) DAC KIT With CS8416+AK4393+5532
Quote:
Originally Posted by falio View Post
Thanks Clave & Terranigma for the ideas that you suggest to us.

I have a AK4396 kit not assembled, so what is the best choice for testing it ?
You're welcome

I suggest you to mount it as is but socket the four DAC's output resistors with a SIL socket.

In this way you can, in every moment, pull out the resistors and plug in wires to trasformer or output caps while leaving the IV/LPF functional when resistors are plugged in socket.

If you buy the socket from the link buy also one packet of solid elcos for AK4396 AVDD, and CS8416 VA and VD decoupling...

Since you still have to assemble it I would buy and mount the proper resistors and caps from AK4396...
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Old 11th June 2011, 01:59 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaveFremen View Post
Today in the mailbox I've found a small packet with an R-Core transformer and an assembled nice blue AK4396 DAC...

I must wait this night to test it but I've managed to check my previous work and found some errors...

Attached are the updated PCB paths and possible BOM for updates

The BOM includes Erin suggestions (Erin can you check it?)
I was just looking at this layout and thinking, The power reg is a long way from the cs8416.
This would not be ideal from what the datasheet suggests.

"VA, Pin 6, Analog Power (Input) - Analog power supply. Nominally +3.3 V. This supply should have as little noise
as possible since noise on this pin will directly affect the jitter performance of the recovered clock"

Allan
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