Digital audio processing is slowly coming to the modern DIYers. Whenever someone plans to build a preamp, an active speaker system or a multichannel room setup, DSPs are an alternative to the well established (and widely accepted) active or passive crossovers using RC-filters.
The goal of this thread is to summarize the possibilities (and possible deficiencies) of current and future DSP products and developments of Hypex Electronics B.V. from Groningen in the Netherlands. Other manufacturers' products, such as the Mini DSP line by DSP4YOU Ltd., are already covered in some other threads.
Current DSP-based Hypex products (as of this writing) are the AS2.100 (Digital) and the (still preliminary) PSC2.400 (for the more professionally minded).
A standalone DSP board was anounced a while ago. Matthijs Oskam (of Hypex) made a comment about it's development over here:
So, currently no separate DSP unit is available form Hypex, yet the platform seems to work well, as users of the aforementioned AS2.100 acknowledge.
What's everyone's requirement in an integrated module?
What's everyone's requirement in a separate DSP unit.
Cheers,
Sebastian.
The goal of this thread is to summarize the possibilities (and possible deficiencies) of current and future DSP products and developments of Hypex Electronics B.V. from Groningen in the Netherlands. Other manufacturers' products, such as the Mini DSP line by DSP4YOU Ltd., are already covered in some other threads.
Current DSP-based Hypex products (as of this writing) are the AS2.100 (Digital) and the (still preliminary) PSC2.400 (for the more professionally minded).
A standalone DSP board was anounced a while ago. Matthijs Oskam (of Hypex) made a comment about it's development over here:
Matthijs_Hypex said:
So, currently no separate DSP unit is available form Hypex, yet the platform seems to work well, as users of the aforementioned AS2.100 acknowledge.
What's everyone's requirement in an integrated module?
What's everyone's requirement in a separate DSP unit.
Cheers,
Sebastian.
Well, as I'm already here, I can even go first. 
In an integrated module (as in fully equipped) I don't look for much more than the anticipated PSC2.400, as I'm advocating balanced signal handling as well as professional connectivity. I'll have to criticize the panel size, though, as the mounting dimensions are way too large in order to fit into a compact stage speaker box or monitor - at least according to my taste.
The lineup would indeed have to be completed by an accompanying subwoofer module, though. I can see this coming as soon as Hypex managed to finish their higher power SMPS products.
A module with a three way configuration for full range speakers would be nice, too. But Hypex already knows this from many DIYers...
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As far as my requirements go, it's the DSP module development that bugs me here. Hypex already has got a well done implementation of a dedicated audio DSP (with reduced computing power and fixed audio firmware) integrated into ready made products like the AS2.100, but has no plans to release this one as a separate product.
I can see an opportunity missed here. I would buy it. Many speakers don't require full-fledged six-channel universal processing. OTOH, many speakers require their own built-in module, though.
A six-channel board couldn't go into an active speaker (or subwoofer), as this wouldn't make a lot of sense when it comes to signal routing and cabling. Thus, it would be a product for a preamp or an integrated multi-channel amplifier.
So, basically, I foresee a gap in the lineup. Speaking of me, I won't buy the AS2.100 for hifi speakers, as I'm never going to use a two-way setup without a woofer - either as a third crossover way in the box or in a separate subwoofer enclosure. OTOH, just buying many AS2.100 can't be the solution for DIY hifi, as this would be way more complicated (and less DIY) than just buying ready-made amplifiers and buying the DSP unit(s) from another manufacturer.
I'd wish for the small two-channel DSP module (and the accompanying digital I/O module) to be released separately.
But that's just me.
Cheers,
Sebastian.
In an integrated module (as in fully equipped) I don't look for much more than the anticipated PSC2.400, as I'm advocating balanced signal handling as well as professional connectivity. I'll have to criticize the panel size, though, as the mounting dimensions are way too large in order to fit into a compact stage speaker box or monitor - at least according to my taste.
The lineup would indeed have to be completed by an accompanying subwoofer module, though. I can see this coming as soon as Hypex managed to finish their higher power SMPS products.
A module with a three way configuration for full range speakers would be nice, too. But Hypex already knows this from many DIYers...
------------
As far as my requirements go, it's the DSP module development that bugs me here. Hypex already has got a well done implementation of a dedicated audio DSP (with reduced computing power and fixed audio firmware) integrated into ready made products like the AS2.100, but has no plans to release this one as a separate product.
I can see an opportunity missed here. I would buy it. Many speakers don't require full-fledged six-channel universal processing. OTOH, many speakers require their own built-in module, though.
A six-channel board couldn't go into an active speaker (or subwoofer), as this wouldn't make a lot of sense when it comes to signal routing and cabling. Thus, it would be a product for a preamp or an integrated multi-channel amplifier.
So, basically, I foresee a gap in the lineup. Speaking of me, I won't buy the AS2.100 for hifi speakers, as I'm never going to use a two-way setup without a woofer - either as a third crossover way in the box or in a separate subwoofer enclosure. OTOH, just buying many AS2.100 can't be the solution for DIY hifi, as this would be way more complicated (and less DIY) than just buying ready-made amplifiers and buying the DSP unit(s) from another manufacturer.
I'd wish for the small two-channel DSP module (and the accompanying digital I/O module) to be released separately.
But that's just me.
Cheers,
Sebastian.
A six-channel board couldn't go into an active speaker (or subwoofer), as this wouldn't make a lot of sense when it comes to signal routing and cabling. Thus, it would be a product for a preamp or an integrated multi-channel amplifier.
So, basically, I foresee a gap in the lineup. Speaking of me, I won't buy the AS2.100 for hifi speakers, as I'm never going to use a two-way setup without a woofer - either as a third crossover way in the box or in a separate subwoofer enclosure. OTOH, just buying many AS2.100 can't be the solution for DIY hifi, as this would be way more complicated (and less DIY) than just buying ready-made amplifiers and buying the DSP unit(s) from another manufacturer.
I'd wish for the small two-channel DSP module (and the accompanying digital I/O module) to be released separately.
But that's just me.
Cheers,
Sebastian.
Thanks, that's one thing we are searching for. The perfect solution to use the "same" board also as 2 two and 4 channel. And besides this we will also have to look for a good solution to make the board compatible/configurable with all of our other products, UcDxxxST/UcDxxxHG/ and OEM series together with either a linear or a switched mode power supply.
We do want to take some time for this so we won't have to disappoint some first buyers for missing features on they product.
Regarding streaming devices (from the AS2.100 thread), a standard computer and wireless connection will work fine. I use a Mac connected via Toslink to the digital input of a receiver. Others use an Airport Express to achieve the same, using the AEX optical out. There are lots of PC solutions out there too.
There are regular discussions of this on the HDD Audio Forum board.
There are regular discussions of this on the HDD Audio Forum board.
I for one would also be interested in a small 3 way board to be mounted in small monitors, that will be my next project whether it is hypex or another (perhaps a bit more DIY) solution. the hypex stuff does indeed sound and work great (not an owner, but friend of one) but I like to have more to do with something than just wire it up, but thats just me.
oh one bit of off topic, I recently bought a hexateq used chassis that quite handily included the softstart, I cannot find any documentation on how one would hook up 2 separate transformers, each with single 240V primaries. what little documentation there is of the product is very specific to the hypex transformers which all have multiple primaries for global use. just wondering if it will cope and what the correct dip switch settings would be; I am not using the link terminals, but want 240v operation without frying relays.
anyway sorry bout that, I started a thread about this and got not a single reply. I really am interested in this product though
oh one bit of off topic, I recently bought a hexateq used chassis that quite handily included the softstart, I cannot find any documentation on how one would hook up 2 separate transformers, each with single 240V primaries. what little documentation there is of the product is very specific to the hypex transformers which all have multiple primaries for global use. just wondering if it will cope and what the correct dip switch settings would be; I am not using the link terminals, but want 240v operation without frying relays.
anyway sorry bout that, I started a thread about this and got not a single reply. I really am interested in this product though
my wish-list for the perfect stand alone DSP module:
- full preamp replacement, so volume and source selection, plenty analog and digital inputs, the latter in all available formats (CD, SACD, DVD-A) and connections (coax, optical, USB, hdmi, etc) analog balanced and unbalanced, all high quality connectors enabling the use of high quality cables
- a few presets (like audiophile, movie, party) for the DSP part selectable with the remote, with the chosen one remembered for each input
- in the DSP a delay large enough to also use it with a corner woofer sat/sub system, so some 1 or 2m difference in location between channels
- remote trigger for powering on the amps, an (optional) relais switched power strip would be nice for this, or something in the other Hypex products to communicate with the DSP
- expandable to a 7.1 (7.2) system for HT, accepting digital in from DVD or BR and able to decode the usual suspects as Dolby D, DTS, etc
- the software has either a built in measurement module, and/or a good interface with e.g. Arta is possible, and/or good importing of measurement data (not only impulse, but also FRD). possibility to use averages of multiple measurements.
Thank you all.
Preamp replacement: We want to set up the board in blocks, on block is the DSP (2/4/6 channels) to which other universal boards can be connected to. For example a input routing board, for example one board with 1x Analogue and 1x AES inputs. And maybe an other board with 4x Analogue (balanced and unbalanced) in and 4xAES in etc. With this setup the user can even make his own dedicated input boards.
This should also be done for the other parts, compatibility with our SMPS-es, and control boards, with display or not, and different sizes.
Because we use an other DSP we are also able to increase the delay so that won't be a problem.
remote trigger > noted
expandable to a 7.1 > we are at the max of 6 outputs, we will not increase the number of channels
the software has either a built in measurement module, and/or a good interface> we will go for the seconds option, we want to make it FRD format compatible
it should have a digital out > I'm sorry but I don't think we will go for this option, at least not for now
A simple preamp
As I've moved from my old hi-fi, I realise that all my input requirements are now digital. My wish-list is therefore very simple - a straightforward, two-channel preamp which accepts 3 or 4 digital inputs. has a remote control volume and a line output. If it has more outputs, that's fine. If extra outputs can be routed off to provide two-channel outputs to a poweramp in other rooms, even better.
I look forward to seeing how this develops.
As I've moved from my old hi-fi, I realise that all my input requirements are now digital. My wish-list is therefore very simple - a straightforward, two-channel preamp which accepts 3 or 4 digital inputs. has a remote control volume and a line output. If it has more outputs, that's fine. If extra outputs can be routed off to provide two-channel outputs to a poweramp in other rooms, even better.
I look forward to seeing how this develops.
Thanks everyone.
Good decision, I'd say. It's probably the most consistent concept, as it offers a high degree of individualization without having to have multitple redundant products in the lineup.
It puts you in direct competition with established DIY module manufacturers, though. Those are having a head start of a couple of years in the market. Thus, the advantage of Hypex modules would have to reflect in both quality (performance) and price.
As an example for how to offer a better product than the competition (and your former lineup), here's an important lack in Hypex' approach so far: multi platform compatibility! You shouldn't make the mistake to force your customers into using Windows 2000 style software any longer. Serving the Mac OS platform is one of today's requirements in a multimedia home, studio or broadcast environment. Serving the linux platform is one of today's requirements for integrated/embedded devices. Thus more OEM products aimed at the (semi-) professional or high end market would be possible.
Recommendation: make it platform independent. Use only (open) standards, a well thought out software architecture and develop separate UIs for different operating systems. With today's software development techniques this is easier than you might guess. Just think of the OEM (end user) market. People will have to use an interface (either hardware or software) in their everyday life.
Ah. I always seem to forget this, too. A very important point, altgough it's actually a missing feature in the UcD modules already.
Digital output should at least not be prevented. Some DIYers (like me) might want to daisy chain (and interconnect) digital stages, AES/EBU might be necessary for this.
Cheers,
Sebastian.
Good decision, I'd say. It's probably the most consistent concept, as it offers a high degree of individualization without having to have multitple redundant products in the lineup.
It puts you in direct competition with established DIY module manufacturers, though. Those are having a head start of a couple of years in the market. Thus, the advantage of Hypex modules would have to reflect in both quality (performance) and price.
As an example for how to offer a better product than the competition (and your former lineup), here's an important lack in Hypex' approach so far: multi platform compatibility! You shouldn't make the mistake to force your customers into using Windows 2000 style software any longer. Serving the Mac OS platform is one of today's requirements in a multimedia home, studio or broadcast environment. Serving the linux platform is one of today's requirements for integrated/embedded devices. Thus more OEM products aimed at the (semi-) professional or high end market would be possible.
Recommendation: make it platform independent. Use only (open) standards, a well thought out software architecture and develop separate UIs for different operating systems. With today's software development techniques this is easier than you might guess. Just think of the OEM (end user) market. People will have to use an interface (either hardware or software) in their everyday life.
Ah. I always seem to forget this, too. A very important point, altgough it's actually a missing feature in the UcD modules already.
Digital output should at least not be prevented. Some DIYers (like me) might want to daisy chain (and interconnect) digital stages, AES/EBU might be necessary for this.
Cheers,
Sebastian.
Oke there are two kinds of digital outputs:
1 digital throughloop, meaning that the digital signal that goes in also comes out, without any processing, delay or channel selection.
This is the digital out that IS available on the new 6-channel DSP
2 You could also include a digital out after the DSP. But this means you also need the converters for this (one digital standard to AES/EBU standard) and you need processing for this.
This is the digital output that will NOT be available on out hardware
I hope this helps you out
I hope this helps you out
Yes, it does.
I take it you refer to the I2S/DOUT/DIN signals between DSP and DACS that could be tapped off? That's what I was thinking about, a connector (and not having to solder on the PCB). A true AES3 format would have been nice, but I understand it would be overly complicated (and too expensive) for the core functionality of the DSP module (and linking between modules inside the same enclosure).
Thanks,
Sebastian.
We are now very very close, early to half September we will have this product available...is our planning...
Price is difficult to say, we will try to have a complete set available for something around EUR 650~750 ex. VAT.
A complete set will mean;
- DSP board
- LCD display
- input/output board with XLR connectors
- small control board with buttons for controlling inputs and volume setting
- linear power supply
Regards,
Jan-Peter
Jan-Peter, will the DSP board be available/functional without the ‘complete’ set? I imagine the buttons/encoders/connectors/LCD and power supply are things that many people will be able to source cheaper alternatives for.
Also, may I ask:
What is your volume control solution? How is it superior to the PGA chips?
Do you have method for correcting phase response?
How big is the DSP board?
Thanks
I'm very interested in seeing a DSP solution which can be used as a 4-Chnl crossover, to which I can plug either a 4-Chnl class-D amp, or mix-and-match mono class-D amps. I've been searching the internet for the past seven days or so, but most of the things I've seen fall short of what I'm trying to do--it seems I'll be clumping together a 4-Chnl crossover (albeit one which has two RCA inputs, one of which will be unused as it will be installed individually for each active speaker), and two separate class-D amps (given the greater power requirements for mid-bass and low-mid drivers).
In short, I would like the modules to build my own 'AS2.100'--but in a 4-Chnl configuration (an 'AS4.100/400'?).
For the time being, I'll have to do the mix-and-match.