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Behringer DCX2496 digital X-over
Behringer DCX2496 digital X-over
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:29 PM   #2201
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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OK, I've been trying to figure out how best to measure this thing. But I've run up against hardware limitations.

I started a new thread here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equip...conundrum.html - to ask for advice.

Any help is welcome.
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:54 PM   #2202
mige0 is offline mige0  Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug20 View Post
I spent a long time reading the threads on the DCX and I guess I have missed the posts with valid measurements showing the differences.
.

Ahha...

– at on hand it does not make sense to invest into measurement too much as correlation between low distortion and good sound is quasi non-existent (the examples I gave in my last posting should be real world prove enough) - or lets put it to be "a heavily mixed bag" - to say the least

– on the other hand – again - tell me how *you* set up meaningful (valid as you call it) measurements for the topics I mentioned here:


about matching outputs

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...tml#post597703

################

about decoupling caps in analog section

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...tml#post601780

#################



and last but not least I don't agree as there actually were measurements done to backup findings that at least to me were valid (meaningfull)...


about analog input sounding "better" than digital one

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...ml#post1076324

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...ml#post1078300
(plus measurements ! )

#################


Last linked posting clearly shows that you simply can not decide by *measurement* what actually *is* better sound wise...
But you and anybody is welcomed to prove me wrong - by *valid measurements*


Michael

Last edited by mige0; 7th January 2010 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 7th January 2010, 11:45 PM   #2203
mige0 is offline mige0  Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panomaniac View Post
OK, I've been trying to figure out how best to measure this thing. But I've run up against hardware limitations.

I started a new thread here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equip...conundrum.html - to ask for advice.

Any help is welcome.

What are you actually trying to measure or prove by measurement?

I mean
- if you plan to change opamps its easiest to look up their specs (which are absolutely meaningless in my experience)
- if you plan to change DAC filter section you will not have enough hardware with a simple sound card (of whatever precision)
- if you plan to measure jitter - well - I really wish you good luck in interpretation
- if you plan to measure interaction of outputs you may check if your sound card can handle enough inputs simultaneously first
- if you plan to measure transparency you first have to define the spec itself, as lowering distortion is by no means correlated to increasing / preserving transparency
- if you plan to measure the ill outcome of relay on IN-1 (or was it IN-3 ?) you will have to look out for additional acceleration measurement equipment
- if you want to measure what influence it has to uplift the ribbon cables you will probably want to look after pretty sophisticated gear
- and so on and so on



bottom line - don't let you force into this, Pano (though it can be fun to do - as long as you don't await especially meaningful output)

Michael

Last edited by mige0; 8th January 2010 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 7th January 2010, 11:48 PM   #2204
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Mostly noise and harmonics. That would be the first tests and maybe the only ones I can do with limited hardware.
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Old 7th January 2010, 11:57 PM   #2205
DougL is offline DougL  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mige0 View Post
What are you actually trying to measure or prove by measurement?

I mean
- if you plan to change opamps its easiest to look up their specs (which are absolutely meaningless in my experience)
- if you plan to change DAC filter section you will not have enough hardware with a simple sound card (of whatever precision)
- if you plan to measure jitter - well - I really wish you good luck in interpretation
- if you plan to measure interaction of outputs you may check if your sound card can handle enough inputs simultaneously first
- if you plan to measure transparency you first have to define the spec itself, as lowering distortion is by no means correlated to increasing transparency
- if you plan to measure the ill outcome of relay on IN-1 you will have to look out for additional acceleration measurement equipment
- if you want to measure what influence it has to uplift the ribbon cables you will probably want to look after pretty sophisticated gear
- and so on and so on



Michael
I think you have adequately quantified the problem.



Doug
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Old 8th January 2010, 12:17 AM   #2206
mige0 is offline mige0  Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panomaniac View Post
Mostly noise and harmonics. That would be the first tests and maybe the only ones I can do with limited hardware.
As said - you are facing hard times to prove any correlation to *sound improvement* on the levels of noise and harmonics given !
Just remember the old IC spec stories and how they were praised back then as to be way beyond any of our hearing ability...


Though - you might get some inspiration here:
Geddes on distortion measurements


Michael

Last edited by mige0; 8th January 2010 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 8th January 2010, 12:47 AM   #2207
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
- if you plan to measure jitter - well - I really wish you good luck in interpretation
If it affects the A/D or D/A, the result is easily measurable- plain ol' harmonic distortion.
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Old 8th January 2010, 12:51 AM   #2208
MJL21193 is offline MJL21193  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mige0 View Post
As said - you are facing hard times to prove any correlation to *sound improvement* on the levels of noise and harmonics given !

Though - you might get some inspiration here:
Geddes on distortion measurements
Yeah, we get it! Great measurements don't equal great sound - that horse is looong dead, stop whipping it!

Everyone of the tweakers trots out those testing results by Geddes to show that THD doesn't make a difference. If they said otherwise you certainly wouldn't see them here.You act as if THD is the only measurement - there are others that are important also.
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Old 8th January 2010, 01:07 AM   #2209
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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That's why I want to try some others, too. I haven't done any Geddes trotting, John. Have I?
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Old 8th January 2010, 01:27 AM   #2210
MJL21193 is offline MJL21193  Canada
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I bet you feel slightly uncomfortable at the meetings.
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