OK, I've been trying to figure out how best to measure this thing. But I've run up against hardware limitations.
I started a new thread here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/158179-measuremnt-hardware-conundrum.html - to ask for advice.
Any help is welcome.
I started a new thread here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/158179-measuremnt-hardware-conundrum.html - to ask for advice.
Any help is welcome.
Ahha...
– at on hand it does not make sense to invest into measurement too much as correlation between low distortion and good sound is quasi non-existent (the examples I gave in my last posting should be real world prove enough) - or lets put it to be "a heavily mixed bag" - to say the least
– on the other hand – again - tell me how *you* set up meaningful (valid as you call it) measurements for the topics I mentioned here:
about matching outputs
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/15943-behringer-dcx2496-digital-x-over-6.html#post597703
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about decoupling caps in analog section
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/15943-behringer-dcx2496-digital-x-over-6.html#post601780
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and last but not least I don't agree as there actually were measurements done to backup findings that at least to me were valid (meaningfull)...
about analog input sounding "better" than digital one
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/15943-behringer-dcx2496-digital-x-over-19.html#post1076324
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/15943-behringer-dcx2496-digital-x-over-19.html#post1078300
(plus measurements ! )
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Last linked posting clearly shows that you simply can not decide by *measurement* what actually *is* better sound wise...
But you and anybody is welcomed to prove me wrong - by *valid measurements*
Michael
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What are you actually trying to measure or prove by measurement?
I mean
- if you plan to change opamps its easiest to look up their specs (which are absolutely meaningless in my experience)
- if you plan to change DAC filter section you will not have enough hardware with a simple sound card (of whatever precision)
- if you plan to measure jitter - well - I really wish you good luck in interpretation
- if you plan to measure interaction of outputs you may check if your sound card can handle enough inputs simultaneously first
- if you plan to measure transparency you first have to define the spec itself, as lowering distortion is by no means correlated to increasing / preserving transparency
- if you plan to measure the ill outcome of relay on IN-1 (or was it IN-3 ?) you will have to look out for additional acceleration measurement equipment
- if you want to measure what influence it has to uplift the ribbon cables you will probably want to look after pretty sophisticated gear
- and so on and so on
bottom line - don't let you force into this, Pano (though it can be fun to do - as long as you don't await especially meaningful output)
Michael
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What are you actually trying to measure or prove by measurement?
I mean
- if you plan to change opamps its easiest to look up their specs (which are absolutely meaningless in my experience)
- if you plan to change DAC filter section you will not have enough hardware with a simple sound card (of whatever precision)
- if you plan to measure jitter - well - I really wish you good luck in interpretation
- if you plan to measure interaction of outputs you may check if your sound card can handle enough inputs simultaneously first
- if you plan to measure transparency you first have to define the spec itself, as lowering distortion is by no means correlated to increasing transparency
- if you plan to measure the ill outcome of relay on IN-1 you will have to look out for additional acceleration measurement equipment
- if you want to measure what influence it has to uplift the ribbon cables you will probably want to look after pretty sophisticated gear
- and so on and so on
Michael
I think you have adequately quantified the problem.
Doug
As said - you are facing hard times to prove any correlation to *sound improvement* on the levels of noise and harmonics given !
Just remember the old IC spec stories and how they were praised back then as to be way beyond any of our hearing ability...
Though - you might get some inspiration here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/109147-geddes-distortion-measurements-4.html#post1330435
Michael
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Yeah, we get it!
Great measurements don't equal great sound - that horse is looong dead, stop whipping it!Everyone of the tweakers trots out those testing results by Geddes to show that THD doesn't make a difference. If they said otherwise you certainly wouldn't see them here.You act as if THD is the only measurement - there are others that are important also.
some basic questions
hello,
i wanted to post a question on the dcx2496 , and then i saw this post with 222 pages,
i would like to start building or at least start to look around for material for a 3 way open baffle speaker with the DCX in it.
i have some very basic questions.
let's say that i use 3 amps which are the same, let's say 100w,
these amps will drive the 3 drivers per speaker.
i know that the dcx hasn't got a volume pot, but you can build on in it after the signal turned to analog.
1)you can use a 6 channel pot
2)you can use a 6 channel stepped attenuator
3)you can use a 6 channel led volume pot
but if the amps are 100w, and the tweeter needs 3 watt, while the woofer is fed 100W because of EQ, can the DCX make up this difference in EQ ? wouldn't it be good to put a voltage divider in front of the amp for the tweeter ?
4)is it possible to use software as a volume pot ?
5)is it possible to use a pot in the digital of optical line before entering the dcx
6)what about playing records: it will have to ADC, what impact does this have on the sound ?
well a lot of questions, i know, i can't find the answers that fast, because all over the web so many people are busy with it. don't feel offened by my questions, i'm only looking for a short answer or a link where i can read the rest.
ps: i know that there are kits online for diy with a lot of mods, (like volume and psu) that one can buy.
thanks so much
greetz
hello,
i wanted to post a question on the dcx2496 , and then i saw this post with 222 pages,
i would like to start building or at least start to look around for material for a 3 way open baffle speaker with the DCX in it.
i have some very basic questions.
let's say that i use 3 amps which are the same, let's say 100w,
these amps will drive the 3 drivers per speaker.
i know that the dcx hasn't got a volume pot, but you can build on in it after the signal turned to analog.
1)you can use a 6 channel pot
2)you can use a 6 channel stepped attenuator
3)you can use a 6 channel led volume pot
but if the amps are 100w, and the tweeter needs 3 watt, while the woofer is fed 100W because of EQ, can the DCX make up this difference in EQ ? wouldn't it be good to put a voltage divider in front of the amp for the tweeter ?
4)is it possible to use software as a volume pot ?
5)is it possible to use a pot in the digital of optical line before entering the dcx
6)what about playing records: it will have to ADC, what impact does this have on the sound ?
well a lot of questions, i know, i can't find the answers that fast, because all over the web so many people are busy with it. don't feel offened by my questions, i'm only looking for a short answer or a link where i can read the rest.
ps: i know that there are kits online for diy with a lot of mods, (like volume and psu) that one can buy.
thanks so much
greetz
thanks mjl21193,
this function is made to adjust the drivers to each other, not for using as a volume pot i suppose.
still i think it is better to have the signal for the tweeter and midrage, (which will be much less then the bass) not to step down in the dcx but just in front of the amp, because small signals in interconnects is maybe not a good idea.
so i guess you can't use software as a volume pot : one switch that controls the thing.?
this function is made to adjust the drivers to each other, not for using as a volume pot i suppose.
still i think it is better to have the signal for the tweeter and midrage, (which will be much less then the bass) not to step down in the dcx but just in front of the amp, because small signals in interconnects is maybe not a good idea.
so i guess you can't use software as a volume pot : one switch that controls the thing.?
Perfect is the enemy of built.hello,
i wanted to post a question on the dcx2496 , and then i saw this post with 222 pages,
i would like to start building or at least start to look around for material for a 3 way open baffle speaker with the DCX in it.
i have some very basic questions.
let's say that i use 3 amps which are the same, let's say 100w,
these amps will drive the 3 drivers per speaker.
i know that the dcx hasn't got a volume pot, but you can build on in it after the signal turned to analog.
1)you can use a 6 channel pot
2)you can use a 6 channel stepped attenuator
3)you can use a 6 channel led volume pot
but if the amps are 100w, and the tweeter needs 3 watt, while the woofer is fed 100W because of EQ, can the DCX make up this difference in EQ ? wouldn't it be good to put a voltage divider in front of the amp for the tweeter ?
4)is it possible to use software as a volume pot ?
5)is it possible to use a pot in the digital of optical line before entering the dcx
6)what about playing records: it will have to ADC, what impact does this have on the sound ?
well a lot of questions, i know, i can't find the answers that fast, because all over the web so many people are busy with it. don't feel offened by my questions, i'm only looking for a short answer or a link where i can read the rest.
ps: i know that there are kits online for diy with a lot of mods, (like volume and psu) that one can buy.
thanks so much
greetz
I feed my DAC into a preamp with a 2 channel volume control. Output of DCX goes into my Dual 3 channel 30 Watt TEAC amps.
The 6 channel and digital input are said to be better.
Get started with the DCX analog input if its more convenient.
Comment one, its easier to get started with identical amps.
I use the DCX to balance the Woofer / mid tweeter sensitivities.
It works very well if woofer, mid and tweeter have roughly comparable sensitivity.
Comment 2, use a big enough baffle to get under 100 Hz without boost.
Comment 3: The ribbon cable can get noisy. If it happens, clean it.
Enjoy. I have 2 speaker builds with my DCX and would not go back.
Also feel free to contact me via the board if you wish.
Good luck.
Doug
Don't think you are on the right track regarding jitter outcome – but how you think this comes down to harmonics ??
- and what else you think could be affected by jitter other than AD or DA conversion ???
Yeah, we get it!
Everyone of the tweakers trots out those testing results by Geddes to show that THD doesn't make a difference. If they said otherwise you certainly wouldn't see them here.You act as if THD is the only measurement - there are others that are important also.
Have some difficulties to translate "throtting" – anyway – the link I set was in order to give an example to Pano about the up's and down's that go along when you like to set up measurements at the border of what is measurable – and the thread linked actually was all about harmonics and noise – not too far off from what Pano wants to measure.
Besides that, I guess you didn't get the point of that thread – Earl stated that low level harmonics burried in the noise (AB crossover distortion of amps) *do* make up for a big difference – and it was the challenge to prove its *not* that way around - by delivering the *measurements* that harmonics fall monotony with signal - even way down in the noise floor ....
This, by the way, may easily get the challenge too when doing serious measurements of the DCX...
On the other hand for my taste its a little bit of quick shot to summarise that harmonics is what I'm only aware of in audio – no?
Michael
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