The ES9022 is a real steal.
Even if it were just on par with the ES9008, it is already tremendous value for money at 1/10 of the cost and complexity.
And we have here an example with no fancy power supplies, no discrete IV stage, no start-up µP and cofiguration, ....
Those who have not try really don't know what they are missing.
You only need to order one (or GB a few) from a dealer, get a SOIC to DIP adapator PCB, 2x LiFePo4 batteries, an XO and off you go.
Patrick
Even if it were just on par with the ES9008, it is already tremendous value for money at 1/10 of the cost and complexity.
And we have here an example with no fancy power supplies, no discrete IV stage, no start-up µP and cofiguration, ....
Those who have not try really don't know what they are missing.
You only need to order one (or GB a few) from a dealer, get a SOIC to DIP adapator PCB, 2x LiFePo4 batteries, an XO and off you go.
Patrick
I agree, Patrick but this has an in-built op-amp output, oh the horror & the specs are not stellar - so not enough scope for endless arguing about IV stages, power supplies, etc. 
On the other hand, for people that want to listen to great audio, sit back & enjoy their music collection, maybe this is just the ticket?
Have you listened to this DAC driving headphones directly? What's your evaluation?
On the other hand, for people that want to listen to great audio, sit back & enjoy their music collection, maybe this is just the ticket?Have you listened to this DAC driving headphones directly? What's your evaluation?
Also currently playing about with the ES9022, thanks John,Patrick etc for getting the interest up to try one of these. Mines just basic tbh, soldered onto a small adapter board, all decoupling caps same value as in datasheet but Epcos MKT , supply ran from a single A123 battery. I2S and MCLK straight from modded QA550 (Tent XO fitted in QA550). Sound is bloody good for what it is, better than any of the old TDA1543 based NOS dacs I tried. I've tried all three Buffalo dacs but only have a modded BII here at the moment with Legato. Be fun comparing after I've tidied things up with the ES9022
You guys using the output filter same as in datasheet?
You guys using the output filter same as in datasheet?
Great, Leo, I knew you were trying this - last we spoke about it was on Rockgrotto in June last year. Yes, interested in your comparison with the Buffalo - let us know when you've compared the two.
I don't use any RF filter on the outputs!
PS you should also try running the Tent XO from a LiFePo4 battery
PPS. slightly disappointed in the inmates here - I sent out 5 of these ES9022 DACs mounted & working - free with some of my modified Hiface units & not one person has bothered posting about it!
I don't use any RF filter on the outputs!
PS you should also try running the Tent XO from a LiFePo4 battery
PPS. slightly disappointed in the inmates here - I sent out 5 of these ES9022 DACs mounted & working - free with some of my modified Hiface units & not one person has bothered posting about it!
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i got one of jkeny s unit and it thought it sounded very relaxed. But it s only when i ve seperated the supplies that it really shined. i also have acko s board but im having some noise issues with it. however i did noticed more detail than with jkeny s unit. the only difference is that acko s unit got a crytek XO.
i was planning to get an es9018 with the D1 but i m wondering if it s really worth it.
i was planning to get an es9018 with the D1 but i m wondering if it s really worth it.
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Hi pidesd,
Thanks for the reply! You mean you have an Acko ES9022 board with on-board Crystek XO? Are you sure that detail is actually on the recording? I found that sound less relaxed & more digital when running the ES9022 in asynchronous mode which is what Acko's board is doing. I also think the Crystek XO on that board might be a mistake in other ways!
Maybe Patrick can say what he found was the sonic difference between asynch & synch clocking of the ES9022?
Pidesd, last we spoke was in January when I suggested some different configuration to the one you were using i.e battery without cap - did you try this?
Thanks for the reply! You mean you have an Acko ES9022 board with on-board Crystek XO? Are you sure that detail is actually on the recording? I found that sound less relaxed & more digital when running the ES9022 in asynchronous mode which is what Acko's board is doing. I also think the Crystek XO on that board might be a mistake in other ways!
Maybe Patrick can say what he found was the sonic difference between asynch & synch clocking of the ES9022?
Pidesd, last we spoke was in January when I suggested some different configuration to the one you were using i.e battery without cap - did you try this?
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For those interested in such arcane aspects of DAC design, here's a source which might carry a bit of weight:
http://www.resonessencelabs.com/invicta/InvictaUserGuideILB.pdf
On this company's website:
Our design engineers and Investors are industry audio experts at DAC and ADC design, and were front and center in the design of the ESS Audio DAC and ADC.
In that document (its long so I've extracted the relevant details) they say:
The clock (timing
source) is critical.
Although the Sabre
DAC has on-chip
re-synchronization
to its master clock,
higher performance
can be achieved by
controlling the
relative phase of the
system and the DAC
clocks.
Bear in mind they're talking here about the ESS9018, but I think the point is clear - sync is better, coming from the horse's mouth so to speak.
i did not do a side by side comparison but i m pretty confident that the acko dac was better to my ears. i m suppose to receive the new es9023 dac from acko so ill compare again when i get it.
yes i ve tried batteries without caps and did not found any significant differences.
I do use an output filter. Value is a matter of taste. Datasheet value is OK.
I do not use datasheet values for the other caps.
To use the QA550 with the ES9022 to the max, you should use a local clock to the 9022 at 45.1584MHz, divide by 4 using two FFs, and feed that 11.28MHz signal back to the QA550 (with TCXO removed). This is what jonners is currently using.
I can only repeat my statement :
Even if it were just on par with the ES9008, it is already tremendous value for money at 1/10 of the cost and complexity.
If I would bother with IVs, I would use R2R and not delta-sigma DACs, any day.
Hope many more will try this bargain chip for themselves.
Who cares about TDA1543 (yes, I have one here for the QA550 as well, as posted before).
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...card-16-44-1-wav-transport-2.html#post1965932
Patrick
.
I do not use datasheet values for the other caps.
To use the QA550 with the ES9022 to the max, you should use a local clock to the 9022 at 45.1584MHz, divide by 4 using two FFs, and feed that 11.28MHz signal back to the QA550 (with TCXO removed). This is what jonners is currently using.
I can only repeat my statement :
Even if it were just on par with the ES9008, it is already tremendous value for money at 1/10 of the cost and complexity.
If I would bother with IVs, I would use R2R and not delta-sigma DACs, any day.
Hope many more will try this bargain chip for themselves.
Who cares about TDA1543 (yes, I have one here for the QA550 as well, as posted before).
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...card-16-44-1-wav-transport-2.html#post1965932
Patrick
.
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Sure but in my experience, extra detail can often be the result of distortion - in this case perhaps the synchronous clock. As I said perhaps EUVL will give us his view on the change in sound between sync & asynch clocking with this DAC?
I'll be interested to hear your direct comparison
Oh well!
yes sorry for the confusion, maybe i was a little to hasty making conclusions. Anyway, i ll have to look into it more carefully and come back with final results
.Great, Leo, I knew you were trying this - last we spoke about it was on Rockgrotto in June last year. Yes, interested in your comparison with the Buffalo - let us know when you've compared the two.
I don't use any RF filter on the outputs!
PS you should also try running the Tent XO from a LiFePo4 battery
PPS. slightly disappointed in the inmates here - I sent out 5 of these ES9022 DACs mounted & working - free with some of my modified Hiface units & not one person has bothered posting about it!
Hi John,
Yes, only tried a few things so far, I would say the Battery is far better than the Superteddyreg used with the ES9022, not tried many other options just yet.
For the output filter I tried 4n7 film caps but didn't like the results, it made the sound seem over smoothed over , actually more like TDA1543 with passive I/V
Main reason I mentioned TDA1543 earlier is because in a lot of ways the ES9022 reminds me of NOS using that chip, the ES9022 has more in the high's and low's though.
I tried the battery with the QA550 XO, it worked very well, both shunt reg and battery offered a worthwhile improvement over the stock LDO reg
Its very easy to post a few short impressions , its a shame you didn't get any feedback
I hope more will post, some more idea's etc what to try would be helpful. I've already tried Sanyo SEP on the AVCC pin bypassed with a 0.1uf smd pps cap but didn't like the results, I replaced it with a single 1uf MKT
Yes, I tried some different output filters but in the end preferred it without any - I think the op-amp output stage is probably sufficiently bandwith limited?Hi John,
Yes, only tried a few things so far, I would say the Battery is far better than the Superteddyreg used with the ES9022, not tried many other options just yet.
For the output filter I tried 4n7 film caps but didn't like the results, it made the sound seem over smoothed over , actually more like TDA1543 with passive I/V
Main reason I mentioned TDA1543 earlier is because in a lot of ways the ES9022 reminds me of NOS using that chip, the ES9022 has more in the high's and low's though.
Yep, & there may be more to be had with a separate clean PS to the clock (battery?)
IndeedIts very easy to post a few short impressions , its a shame you didn't get any feedback
I hope more will post, some more idea's etc what to try would be helpful.
My impressions too with SEP caps in this position!
Hi Patrick.
That was end of Jan. Any chance to see your interesting design (WM8804+ES9022/23) published now?
See post #55, 78, 88, 115, or you would like to see something else ?
Circuit is more or less standard datasheet, in stand alone mode.
The one shown in post #78 has a 12MHz Citizen X'tal and 15p mica caps.
The one in post #88 has a tailored ES9022 48MHz (Crystek XO), which is then divided by 4 to generate the 12MHz required by the WM8804.
So they both use the same XO.
Patrick
.
Circuit is more or less standard datasheet, in stand alone mode.
The one shown in post #78 has a 12MHz Citizen X'tal and 15p mica caps.
The one in post #88 has a tailored ES9022 48MHz (Crystek XO), which is then divided by 4 to generate the 12MHz required by the WM8804.
So they both use the same XO.
Patrick
.
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Patrick, your valuable contributions make you an important member of this forum. You're a fine designer, no doubt, but not everybody here are EE, i.e. me.
OTOH I'm always willing to learn from experienced members even if I'm not a digital expert at all.
I read the nice words you spent about this dac (post #121 "The ES9022 is a real steal. Even if it were just on par with the ES9008, it is already tremendous value for money at 1/10 of the cost and complexity. And we have here an example with no fancy power supplies, no discrete IV stage, no start-up µP and configuration, .... Those who have not try really don't know what they are missing.") and the complete thread.
Hence I thought this must be a nice dac, simple enough for my (low) level of skillfulness.
I then tried to reverse engineer your boards (as you suggested in post #64 "There is enough information from the photos for any true DIYers to copy the layout and make their own PCB in a similar fashion, if they so wish.") and I drawn a schematic that should work, but unfortunately it's blank as many of the smd components (i.e. caps) didn’t show any value. As I also read on post #34 "PS I did not follow the datasheet straightly, as you would expect from me." and #130 "I do use an output filter. Value is a matter of taste. Datasheet value is OK. I do not use datasheet values for the other caps." I dared ask if you could tell us more, maybe publishing a complete schematic, if available.
I understand you're under NDA, but if you ask me “See post #55, 78, 88, 115, or you would like to see something else ?” my first reply can’t be different from “Yes, please!”.
Secondly I would ask to further describe the frequency divider (which flip-flop did you use?), which XO (Crystek CX3391 or better?), did you use a 0.1uF C0G cap at the S/PDIF input (pin 20) of the WM8804? (I couldn’t find any pic of the WM8804 board, but the copper side.)
I’m confident in a positive reply from you in order to help me and possibly other members interested in this nice design of yours.
OTOH I'm always willing to learn from experienced members even if I'm not a digital expert at all.
I read the nice words you spent about this dac (post #121 "The ES9022 is a real steal. Even if it were just on par with the ES9008, it is already tremendous value for money at 1/10 of the cost and complexity. And we have here an example with no fancy power supplies, no discrete IV stage, no start-up µP and configuration, .... Those who have not try really don't know what they are missing.") and the complete thread.
Hence I thought this must be a nice dac, simple enough for my (low) level of skillfulness.
I then tried to reverse engineer your boards (as you suggested in post #64 "There is enough information from the photos for any true DIYers to copy the layout and make their own PCB in a similar fashion, if they so wish.") and I drawn a schematic that should work, but unfortunately it's blank as many of the smd components (i.e. caps) didn’t show any value. As I also read on post #34 "PS I did not follow the datasheet straightly, as you would expect from me." and #130 "I do use an output filter. Value is a matter of taste. Datasheet value is OK. I do not use datasheet values for the other caps." I dared ask if you could tell us more, maybe publishing a complete schematic, if available.
I understand you're under NDA, but if you ask me “See post #55, 78, 88, 115, or you would like to see something else ?” my first reply can’t be different from “Yes, please!”.
Secondly I would ask to further describe the frequency divider (which flip-flop did you use?), which XO (Crystek CX3391 or better?), did you use a 0.1uF C0G cap at the S/PDIF input (pin 20) of the WM8804? (I couldn’t find any pic of the WM8804 board, but the copper side.)
I’m confident in a positive reply from you in order to help me and possibly other members interested in this nice design of yours.
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