SDIF-3 , SDIF-2 and DSD input of ESS Dac

NeoY2k · 31st August 2009, 03:38 PM

Hello,
I have trouble to find accurate description of SDIF-2 and SDIF-3 for DSD.
I mean, for the ESS chips are 3 inputs: Clock, Left and Right.

SDIF-2 is supposed to be 3 wires too, but I couldn't find the specs anywhere - I found them to pass PCM over it, no one ever comfirmed that it was 3 wire or 2 wires.

SDIF-3 is seen as 2 wires with embedded clock (like SPDIF, biphase). Specs are published by grimm audio, and they say in the same document that it uses 3 lines and that it uses 2 lines - hey, is it biphase or is it seperate clock in the end??????

Could someone enlighten me on these interfaces, and maybe point me the real interface specifications?

Thank you,
Nicolas

kevinkr · 01:38 AM

There is quite a lot of information to be found on the Twisted Pear Audio site about their latest incarnation of the Buffalo Dac which uses the new version of the ESS dac chip. It is possible that the schematics and manual provided there might answer some of your questions.

Link here: http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx

NeoY2k · 2nd September 2009, 11:08 AM

Thank you, but unfortunately they do not. I should try to ask ESS directly to know wether their unit can do direct SDIF-3 decoding/clock extraction, but I'd first have a real description of this format: is it with a seperate clock or not????

I never used SDIF2 nor SDIF3, never had the need for it, but some have it, so I want to be able to design for it.

Thank you,
Nicolas

4real · 2nd September 2009, 07:40 PM

Strange stuff this SDIF interface. There is nothing much to be found about it on the internet.. Just that it used BNC and is only for one channel (so you needs to SDIF connections for stereo).

What do you want with it? I don't think that you will find any modern device using it.. Any DSD device having a digital output will probably be some modern link like Firewire (DenonLink) or something else.

NeoY2k · 2nd September 2009, 10:00 PM

Well, I would just provide compatibility with SDIF-3 featured SACD players.
Yes, appart than it needs a wire per channel, there's not much to be found. Level etc...? Can we trust on that a paper that says both that it has embedded clock and that it needs an external one?

What I can find is that on the rear of sdif-3 players are only two BNCs. As it needs one for each channel, I can think that it is indeed biphase encoded. Thus needs a PLL to extract the clock and send it to the ESS DAC.

But that's not much to make an interface! Why can't we find any paper on this interface? It seems to be a standard, so there MUST be a published paper... Why can't I find one?

If anyone has extra information...
Thanks
Nicolas

4real · 2nd September 2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoY2k

Well, I would just provide compatibility with SDIF-3 featured SACD players.

Are there any???

Quote:

But that's not much to make an interface! Why can't we find any paper on this interface? It seems to be a standard, so there MUST be a published paper... Why can't I find one?

Probably because it it not much of standard after all

NeoY2k · 3rd September 2009, 10:38 AM

Well, yes there are! Not much though. I think of stuff like that:
http://www.tascam.de/fr/index.php?page=dv-ra1000.html

And sony equivalents. There were consumer products fitted with it too.

Anyway I'll make this interface as an optional dongle as chances are I will never have to design it (well, unfortunately, I know of someone who wants me to have this SDIF interface for his SACD player... sheet).

But I can't understand how something that became rather widespread (I mean, look at PRISM converters, they all feature SDIF-3, as do all EMM equipment too...) can't be described somewhere. It MUST be.

The question being: where?

I will send an email ton Mr Meitner, maybe he could provide me this information.

4real · 3rd September 2009, 12:53 PM

Did you see this document: http://www.grimmaudio.com/whitepapers/sdif3v10.pdf ?

It sais: one channel per SDIF-3 interface, and separate worldclock, meaing you have three BNC connections, corresponding with L, R en WCLK.... I guess this can almost be directly fed into the Sabre, you'll just need to decode the phase encoding

NeoY2k · 02:59 PM

Well yes I seen this paper, this is why I started this thread, but:

- Why can you only see 2 BNC on SDIF-3 commercial equipment? There is a "wordclock" input the other side of it, but if it would be for SDIF-3, why not putting them side to side?
- Why using biphase if you send the clock seperately?

So,
- Is this paper accurate?

NeoY2k · 3rd September 2009, 03:22 PM

I just can't find the answer.
DcS Scarlatti specifies the need for an external WCK... For DSD SDIF-2 use.
It is not using SDIF-3.

What an obscure format!

31st August 2009, 03:38 PM	#1
NeoY2k diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2007	SDIF-3 , SDIF-2 and DSD input of ESS Dac Hello, I have trouble to find accurate description of SDIF-2 and SDIF-3 for DSD. I mean, for the ESS chips are 3 inputs: Clock, Left and Right. SDIF-2 is supposed to be 3 wires too, but I couldn't find the specs anywhere - I found them to pass PCM over it, no one ever comfirmed that it was 3 wire or 2 wires. SDIF-3 is seen as 2 wires with embedded clock (like SPDIF, biphase). Specs are published by grimm audio, and they say in the same document that it uses 3 lines and that it uses 2 lines - hey, is it biphase or is it seperate clock in the end?????? Could someone enlighten me on these interfaces, and maybe point me the real interface specifications? Thank you, Nicolas

2nd September 2009, 01:35 AM	#2
kevinkr Contributing diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Blog Entries: 4	There is quite a lot of information to be found on the Twisted Pear Audio site about their latest incarnation of the Buffalo Dac which uses the new version of the ESS dac chip. It is possible that the schematics and manual provided there might answer some of your questions. Link here: http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx __________________ www.kta-hifi.net Last edited by kevinkr; 2nd September 2009 at 01:38 AM.

3rd September 2009, 02:53 PM	#9
NeoY2k diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2007	Well yes I seen this paper, this is why I started this thread, but: - Why can you only see 2 BNC on SDIF-3 commercial equipment? There is a "wordclock" input the other side of it, but if it would be for SDIF-3, why not putting them side to side? - Why using biphase if you send the clock seperately? So, - Is this paper accurate? Last edited by NeoY2k; 3rd September 2009 at 02:59 PM.

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2nd September 2009, 11:08 AM	#3
NeoY2k diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2007	Thank you, but unfortunately they do not. I should try to ask ESS directly to know wether their unit can do direct SDIF-3 decoding/clock extraction, but I'd first have a real description of this format: is it with a seperate clock or not???? I never used SDIF2 nor SDIF3, never had the need for it, but some have it, so I want to be able to design for it. Thank you, Nicolas

2nd September 2009, 07:40 PM	#4
4real diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Arnhem	Strange stuff this SDIF interface. There is nothing much to be found about it on the internet.. Just that it used BNC and is only for one channel (so you needs to SDIF connections for stereo). What do you want with it? I don't think that you will find any modern device using it.. Any DSD device having a digital output will probably be some modern link like Firewire (DenonLink) or something else.

2nd September 2009, 10:00 PM	#5
NeoY2k diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2007	Well, I would just provide compatibility with SDIF-3 featured SACD players. Yes, appart than it needs a wire per channel, there's not much to be found. Level etc...? Can we trust on that a paper that says both that it has embedded clock and that it needs an external one? What I can find is that on the rear of sdif-3 players are only two BNCs. As it needs one for each channel, I can think that it is indeed biphase encoded. Thus needs a PLL to extract the clock and send it to the ESS DAC. But that's not much to make an interface! Why can't we find any paper on this interface? It seems to be a standard, so there MUST be a published paper... Why can't I find one? If anyone has extra information... Thanks Nicolas

3rd September 2009, 10:38 AM	#7
NeoY2k diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2007	Well, yes there are! Not much though. I think of stuff like that: http://www.tascam.de/fr/index.php?page=dv-ra1000.html And sony equivalents. There were consumer products fitted with it too. Anyway I'll make this interface as an optional dongle as chances are I will never have to design it (well, unfortunately, I know of someone who wants me to have this SDIF interface for his SACD player... sheet). But I can't understand how something that became rather widespread (I mean, look at PRISM converters, they all feature SDIF-3, as do all EMM equipment too...) can't be described somewhere. It MUST be. The question being: where? I will send an email ton Mr Meitner, maybe he could provide me this information.

3rd September 2009, 12:53 PM	#8
4real diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Arnhem	Did you see this document: http://www.grimmaudio.com/whitepapers/sdif3v10.pdf ? It sais: one channel per SDIF-3 interface, and separate worldclock, meaing you have three BNC connections, corresponding with L, R en WCLK.... I guess this can almost be directly fed into the Sabre, you'll just need to decode the phase encoding

3rd September 2009, 03:22 PM	#10
NeoY2k diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2007	I just can't find the answer. DcS Scarlatti specifies the need for an external WCK... For DSD SDIF-2 use. It is not using SDIF-3. What an obscure format!

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