SDIF-3 , SDIF-2 and DSD input of ESS Dac - diyAudio
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Old 31st August 2009, 04:38 PM   #1
NeoY2k is offline NeoY2k  France
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Default SDIF-3 , SDIF-2 and DSD input of ESS Dac

Hello,
I have trouble to find accurate description of SDIF-2 and SDIF-3 for DSD.
I mean, for the ESS chips are 3 inputs: Clock, Left and Right.

SDIF-2 is supposed to be 3 wires too, but I couldn't find the specs anywhere - I found them to pass PCM over it, no one ever comfirmed that it was 3 wire or 2 wires.

SDIF-3 is seen as 2 wires with embedded clock (like SPDIF, biphase). Specs are published by grimm audio, and they say in the same document that it uses 3 lines and that it uses 2 lines - hey, is it biphase or is it seperate clock in the end??????

Could someone enlighten me on these interfaces, and maybe point me the real interface specifications?

Thank you,
Nicolas
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Old 2nd September 2009, 02:35 AM   #2
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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There is quite a lot of information to be found on the Twisted Pear Audio site about their latest incarnation of the Buffalo Dac which uses the new version of the ESS dac chip. It is possible that the schematics and manual provided there might answer some of your questions.

Link here: http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx
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Last edited by kevinkr; 2nd September 2009 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 2nd September 2009, 12:08 PM   #3
NeoY2k is offline NeoY2k  France
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Thank you, but unfortunately they do not. I should try to ask ESS directly to know wether their unit can do direct SDIF-3 decoding/clock extraction, but I'd first have a real description of this format: is it with a seperate clock or not????

I never used SDIF2 nor SDIF3, never had the need for it, but some have it, so I want to be able to design for it.

Thank you,
Nicolas
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Old 2nd September 2009, 08:40 PM   #4
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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Strange stuff this SDIF interface. There is nothing much to be found about it on the internet.. Just that it used BNC and is only for one channel (so you needs to SDIF connections for stereo).

What do you want with it? I don't think that you will find any modern device using it.. Any DSD device having a digital output will probably be some modern link like Firewire (DenonLink) or something else.
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Old 2nd September 2009, 11:00 PM   #5
NeoY2k is offline NeoY2k  France
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Well, I would just provide compatibility with SDIF-3 featured SACD players.
Yes, appart than it needs a wire per channel, there's not much to be found. Level etc...? Can we trust on that a paper that says both that it has embedded clock and that it needs an external one?

What I can find is that on the rear of sdif-3 players are only two BNCs. As it needs one for each channel, I can think that it is indeed biphase encoded. Thus needs a PLL to extract the clock and send it to the ESS DAC.

But that's not much to make an interface! Why can't we find any paper on this interface? It seems to be a standard, so there MUST be a published paper... Why can't I find one?

If anyone has extra information...
Thanks
Nicolas
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Old 2nd September 2009, 11:09 PM   #6
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoY2k View Post
Well, I would just provide compatibility with SDIF-3 featured SACD players.
Are there any???

Quote:
But that's not much to make an interface! Why can't we find any paper on this interface? It seems to be a standard, so there MUST be a published paper... Why can't I find one?
Probably because it it not much of standard after all
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Old 3rd September 2009, 11:38 AM   #7
NeoY2k is offline NeoY2k  France
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Well, yes there are! Not much though. I think of stuff like that:
http://www.tascam.de/fr/index.php?page=dv-ra1000.html

And sony equivalents. There were consumer products fitted with it too.

Anyway I'll make this interface as an optional dongle as chances are I will never have to design it (well, unfortunately, I know of someone who wants me to have this SDIF interface for his SACD player... sheet).

But I can't understand how something that became rather widespread (I mean, look at PRISM converters, they all feature SDIF-3, as do all EMM equipment too...) can't be described somewhere. It MUST be.

The question being: where?

I will send an email ton Mr Meitner, maybe he could provide me this information.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 01:53 PM   #8
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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Did you see this document: http://www.grimmaudio.com/whitepapers/sdif3v10.pdf ?

It sais: one channel per SDIF-3 interface, and separate worldclock, meaing you have three BNC connections, corresponding with L, R en WCLK.... I guess this can almost be directly fed into the Sabre, you'll just need to decode the phase encoding
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Old 3rd September 2009, 03:53 PM   #9
NeoY2k is offline NeoY2k  France
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Well yes I seen this paper, this is why I started this thread, but:

- Why can you only see 2 BNC on SDIF-3 commercial equipment? There is a "wordclock" input the other side of it, but if it would be for SDIF-3, why not putting them side to side?
- Why using biphase if you send the clock seperately?

So,
- Is this paper accurate?

Last edited by NeoY2k; 3rd September 2009 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 04:22 PM   #10
NeoY2k is offline NeoY2k  France
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I just can't find the answer.
DcS Scarlatti specifies the need for an external WCK... For DSD SDIF-2 use.
It is not using SDIF-3.

What an obscure format!
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