QFT.
yep, not a comment on the cost of the one above, short run Rogers Teflon/2oz copper/gold plate PCBs with custom logic, controlled impedance layout and flying probe testing, dont come cheap... not cheap at all. I think its totally fair and its inline with the quality of the rest of the high end ackodac modules, but its quality that isnt really needed here because it exceeds the quality of anything else that will surround it.
also to be fair, it shouldnt be expected that its that cheap without a significant number of orders prepaid, just like the amanero board. afterall the only reason its so cheap here on the forum is because we on the forum basically bankrolled large production
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IMHO, I think there would good interest in an fairly inexpensive Amanero Fifo interface board. I think if we started a seperate, dedicated thread for it, to give the idea more exposure, it would get a LOT of attention.
When I asked about price and schedule, this was really what I was looking for so I would be in for one.
Also wondering what you would do for DSD?
Randy
I think its up to acko how to proceed from here, but I agree it would get more attention elsewhere and would not distract from his core modules, I wouldnt want this thread filled with a heap of basic questions about a design that really has little to do with the Ackodac. I would not blame acko for not being interested in Design by committee with such a large group (thread about what people want should be avoided, especially at a low price point), its a nightmare. so really it would be for him to decide the direction, as it would really have to be in the vendors area as it will probably get a bit of traffic
what do you mean what to do about DSD? clearly Acko is already working with this board, good chance hes got it under control. you wouldnt want to do anything specifically much for DSD because ive noticed a pretty small number of the buyers are using hires, let alone DSD. only things to worry about would be the DSDOE pin, the rest is already under control and does not need anything different to PCM.
if you mean switching Left and Right? I havent checked what the current status is of that in the firmware, but really that should be handled elsewhere, getting the pins to switch physically/electrically would blow out the complexity (it would be a pita actually) and if you want to keep the cost down, best leave that for software.
what do you mean what to do about DSD? clearly Acko is already working with this board, good chance hes got it under control. you wouldnt want to do anything specifically much for DSD because ive noticed a pretty small number of the buyers are using hires, let alone DSD. only things to worry about would be the DSDOE pin, the rest is already under control and does not need anything different to PCM.
if you mean switching Left and Right? I havent checked what the current status is of that in the firmware, but really that should be handled elsewhere, getting the pins to switch physically/electrically would blow out the complexity (it would be a pita actually) and if you want to keep the cost down, best leave that for software.
I was thinking of something like the Amanero group buy thread, where Acko would offer a group buy of a "product".
I was not thinking of a design related thread when I suggested a seperate thread.
And it's obviously up to Acko, so I won't bring it up again.
You're right, in thinking about it some more, I don't have any questions about DSD. I won't elaborate so I don't embarass myself
Randy
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Amanero Isolator
I am looking at a very basic isolator and reclocker board for the Amanero to keep costs down. This is not part of the core product line, mainly for experimentation and support is limited. Concept is from my posts earlier but with some elaborate sections removed (will update pics shortly).
Pass through of DSD and PCM as produced by the Amanero board. There is no FIFO or processing, just depending on clean DAC master clock to reclock the FFs and negate any effects of additive jitter caused by the isolator. For ESS DACs only. Re-Clock Freq-100MHz for 9012/16/18 parts and 50MHz for 9023
Thinking of just the bare boards with BOM and schematic for subscribers. Price is looking ~USD25 for the bare boards. Maybe produce a small batch or (group buy like this).
Those who have PMed me will be also be notified once specs/pricing have been finalised
The full fledged reclocker/isolator design for AKD12P series will be supplied with the DAC Combo system or bundled with the AKU series
I am looking at a very basic isolator and reclocker board for the Amanero to keep costs down. This is not part of the core product line, mainly for experimentation and support is limited. Concept is from my posts earlier but with some elaborate sections removed (will update pics shortly).
Pass through of DSD and PCM as produced by the Amanero board. There is no FIFO or processing, just depending on clean DAC master clock to reclock the FFs and negate any effects of additive jitter caused by the isolator. For ESS DACs only. Re-Clock Freq-100MHz for 9012/16/18 parts and 50MHz for 9023
Thinking of just the bare boards with BOM and schematic for subscribers. Price is looking ~USD25 for the bare boards. Maybe produce a small batch or (group buy like this).
Those who have PMed me will be also be notified once specs/pricing have been finalised
The full fledged reclocker/isolator design for AKD12P series will be supplied with the DAC Combo system or bundled with the AKU series
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Sounds good to me
Thanks for this project.
I'm thinking Amanero + this + 9016 would be a good foundation for a nice high bang for the buck dac.
Randy
@esl 63, check the link Acko posted
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/227502-amanero-isolator-reclocker-gb.html#post3320268
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/227502-amanero-isolator-reclocker-gb.html#post3320268
Nice! Please, teflon. Why not a 9012 on it instead
Is it that big difference on the DAC chips / tefon?
/
teflon in small orders and even in large numbers is massively different in price and yes 9012/18 add considerable extra complexity in layout, power supply etc. Even if he could, honestly why would he undercut his own premium products? that would be stupid, Acko does not appear stupid to you does he?
the price is good, Acko is not playing tricks here as some others do to make you believe its better value than it is, once you add everything up with parts, as these demand nice parts, nice power supplies, you watch it all add up.
Also I presume the MCU is not included
I knew You would come to his defense - I had the timer on Honestly, Ackos 9012/18 board has a few years on their neck now - maybe it's time to "upgrade". And maybe You should let the intended receiver answer these kind of questions - or are You their marketing department?
I'm considering my options and I will continue to try to form them in the way I would like them until saturated - then I will make up my mind about a purchase.
And no, I don't consider Acko stupid - actually, it never crossed my mind.
/
Honestly, Ackos 9012/18 board has a few years on their neck now - maybe it's time to "upgrade". And maybe You should let the intended receiver answer these kind of questions - or are You their marketing department? I'm considering my options and I will continue to try to form them in the way I would like them until saturated - then I will make up my mind about a purchase.
And no, I don't consider Acko stupid - actually, it never crossed my mind.
/
well OK no problem, but honestly why would you think he could possibly make a teflon board with a $50 retail dac chip for $75
what is he going to upgrade? an upgrade is going to cost more. its a dac chip on high quality board with high quality decoupling caps. afaik and in my experience buying such exact parts, they still have no equal
sure he could make a dual mono or something, but expect a price hike. the parts all still cost the same as they did back then. just because some budget dacs have been released.
I react particularly to this type of question, because I bought my board with just the dac chip soldered, I bought the parts, I know what they cost.
what is he going to upgrade? an upgrade is going to cost more. its a dac chip on high quality board with high quality decoupling caps. afaik and in my experience buying such exact parts, they still have no equal
sure he could make a dual mono or something, but expect a price hike. the parts all still cost the same as they did back then. just because some budget dacs have been released.
I react particularly to this type of question, because I bought my board with just the dac chip soldered, I bought the parts, I know what they cost.
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yeah but its still the same thing, if he put a 9012 dac chip, on a board that will power it (hell one that will fit it, the 9016 is LQFP48, the 9018/2 is LQFP64) and a teflon board, that would be a dac he already has listed on his site... so I guess his answer to your question would be to link you to the AKD18P product page =)
besides dual mono just puts more stress on the IV stage with double the current (16ma is already too much for many discrete parts), i'm running dual dacs for 4 way, but not for dual mono, ive tried it and theres no benefit to my ears. (if I can manage it I may try to switch between them for headphone 2 channel use, but its not high on the agenda, I wouldnt buy it to do it put it that way)
the 9018/2 are already set up with their pin layout to be dual mono, they have separate power supply, reference, logic for Left and right channels as it is, so with good layout, like here, its already dual mono. IMO dual dacs for ES9018/2 is more the marketing department, or obsessive DIYers.
and good luck building an analogue stage that can get you more than the -120db THD+N, so even though ive spent some pretty crazy money on these dacs including copper foil vcap teflon caps, Zfoil power resistors etc etc, I dont consider it really worth it to build dual mono.
also, I paid more for the first generation FR4 version of the ackodac than you pay now for a fully stuffed Teflon board and paid more again for the teflon version as it cost more to build than it would to get pick and place. Tom and I bought the first ones off the rank, 2 for me, 2 for Tom and 1 or 2 for Acko, cant remember, it was us crazy enough to ask for the first teflon boards and w.fl connectors. so no veiled accusations please. I like the product and Ive come to like the man, plus hes an Aussie (wheres that Aussie Flag?!)
besides dual mono just puts more stress on the IV stage with double the current (16ma is already too much for many discrete parts), i'm running dual dacs for 4 way, but not for dual mono, ive tried it and theres no benefit to my ears. (if I can manage it I may try to switch between them for headphone 2 channel use, but its not high on the agenda, I wouldnt buy it to do it put it that way)
the 9018/2 are already set up with their pin layout to be dual mono, they have separate power supply, reference, logic for Left and right channels as it is, so with good layout, like here, its already dual mono. IMO dual dacs for ES9018/2 is more the marketing department, or obsessive DIYers.
and good luck building an analogue stage that can get you more than the -120db THD+N, so even though ive spent some pretty crazy money on these dacs including copper foil vcap teflon caps, Zfoil power resistors etc etc, I dont consider it really worth it to build dual mono.
also, I paid more for the first generation FR4 version of the ackodac than you pay now for a fully stuffed Teflon board and paid more again for the teflon version as it cost more to build than it would to get pick and place. Tom and I bought the first ones off the rank, 2 for me, 2 for Tom and 1 or 2 for Acko, cant remember, it was us crazy enough to ask for the first teflon boards and w.fl connectors. so no veiled accusations please. I like the product and Ive come to like the man, plus hes an Aussie (wheres that Aussie Flag?!)
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Totally my fault for the confusion. Board previewed is FR4 for the price indicated. Fab guys usually do not stock Teflon and I have to take the whole big panel even for sample quantity and they are pricey! For new products Teflon will be optional only from now on but I will press for better deals closer to release.
AKD16-combo
Also, the bare board preview and price is no sales gimmick. It was actually feedback from those who bought the basic AKD16 which they can select their choice of components to load and customize. Of course right tools and skills required and there is going to be a lot of work mounting the tiny parts. Qusp has done this with the bare 9012 AKD12 board and I believe he has done better than my stock boards with some unique components. I will indicate price for a typical complete build later so you can have some idea before jumping in.
Also, the bare board preview and price is no sales gimmick. It was actually feedback from those who bought the basic AKD16 which they can select their choice of components to load and customize. Of course right tools and skills required and there is going to be a lot of work mounting the tiny parts. Qusp has done this with the bare 9012 AKD12 board and I believe he has done better than my stock boards with some unique components. I will indicate price for a typical complete build later so you can have some idea before jumping in.
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