TDA1541A - Double Crown - Myth or Fact - How to Test - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Source & Line > Digital Line Level

Digital Line Level DACs, Digital Crossovers, Equalizers, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th June 2009, 02:22 PM   #1
poynton is offline poynton  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
poynton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: A life on the ocean waves when I'm not at home in N. Wales (but I'm not Welsh so no sheep jokes!)
Default TDA1541A - Double Crown - Myth or Fact - How to Test

Hi All,

Reading through various threads, there seems to be 2 camps over whether the Double Crown chips sound better or not.

As the Double Crowns were selected items, it seems reasonable to assume that there are many chips out there with the same performance.

Is there any way that a tester could be put together to test chips to the double crown standard (other than using your ears)

Andy
__________________
If it ain't broke, break it !! Then fix it again. It's called DIY !
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 03:15 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
stoolpigeon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Laputa
I was under the impression that as part of the manufacturing process all chips were tested and graded.

It follows that (unless the chips change) it would only be possible to further grade chips from a particular grade. For example it could be possible to find 2 standard chips of which one is very close to the higher grade and one very close to the lower grade.

Surely it must be obvious, even to those lacking my level of cynicism, that most of these crown chips suddenly appearing are fakes.

sp
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 03:39 PM   #3
Gabdx1 is offline Gabdx1  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Its easy for a china company to put tda1545 chips into a fake 1541 cover and print 2 crown on them.

I never heard the fake tda but looking the feedback it appears people find them nice. Just that you don't pay the $$$ for what you may think.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 08:03 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
musicomputer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Manchester, England
Default Re: TDA1541A - Double Crown - Myth or Fact - How to Test

Quote:
Originally posted by poynton
Is there any way that a tester could be put together to test chips to the double crown standard (other than using your ears)

Trouble is, afaik, Philips never published the S2 specification. The best we have is from the February 1991 datasheet:

TDA1541A/N2 (ie. the plain old TDA1541A):
bit 1 - 16 Edl < 1 LSB

TDA1541A/N2/R1 (ie. TDA1541A R1)
bit 1 - 16 Edl < 2 LSB

TDA1541A/N2/S1 (ie. TDA1541A S1)
bit 1 - 7 Edl < 0.5 LSB
bit 8 - 15 Edl < 1 LSB
bit 16 Edl < 0.75 LSB

(Edl = differential linearity error)

We can only assume that the S2 grade has a specification that betters the S1.

Perhaps a way to test the chips would be with an audio test CD that has various waveforms (ramp/sine/triangle extending over the whole digital range) and measure the monotonicity of each step on the analogue output?
__________________
pure, perfect sound - forever
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 09:44 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
QSerraTico_Tico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: Re: TDA1541A - Double Crown - Myth or Fact - How to Test

Quote:
Originally posted by musicomputer



Trouble is, afaik, Philips never published the S2 specification. ....

We can only assume that the S2 grade has a specification that betters the S1.

Perhaps a way to test the chips would be with an audio test CD that has various waveforms (ramp/sine/triangle extending over the whole digital range) and measure the monotonicity of each step on the analogue output?

Not true!!
Will post specs later!

Attached Images
File Type: gif digital-tda1541.gif (17.2 KB, 311 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 09:44 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Bernhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Munich
Measure low level distortion.

Problem is that left and right are always different.
Chance to have two good channels is close to zero.

Funny, while some people are hunting down the most linear chips,
others believe they could built the ultimate DAC with hopeless garbage like TDA1543.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 10:32 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
musicomputer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Manchester, England
Default Re: Re: Re: TDA1541A - Double Crown - Myth or Fact - How to Test

Quote:
Originally posted by QSerraTico_Tico
Not true!!
Will post specs later!
I stand corrected

In the spec. you quote, the TDA1541A/R1 measures slightly better than the TDA1541A, which contradicts the February 1991 datasheet.

__________________
pure, perfect sound - forever
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 02:04 AM   #8
amc184 is offline amc184  New Zealand
diyAudio Member
 
amc184's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Christchurch
I think the picture that QSerraTico_Tico posted is one I posted up a couple of weeks ago. The clip comes from Philips' 'Semiconductors for Digital Audio, a designer's guide 1997'. It's quite an interesting document, comparing most of the Philips DAC line.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 07:24 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
QSerraTico_Tico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally posted by amc184
I think the picture that QSerraTico_Tico posted is one I posted up a couple of weeks ago. The clip comes from Philips' 'Semiconductors for Digital Audio, a designer's guide 1997'. It's quite an interesting document, comparing most of the Philips DAC line.

That's right.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 12:32 PM   #10
oshifis is offline oshifis  Hungary
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Budapest, Hungary
I created such a test CD for linearity testing, as described here:

DAC linearity test CD

The issue is that it works in NOS mode (SAA7220B/P bypassed) only, otherwise the signal on the oscilloscope can not be properly evaluated visually.

I encourage you guys to download the zipped file from here and try it:

http://tube.fw.hu/lintest.zip

You need a low-noise 100x amplifier to make the low-level steps visible. Waiting for your feedback.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2x TDA1541A S2 (Double Crown) bakus11 Swap Meet 11 16th April 2010 10:57 PM
TDA1541A double crown, genuine, for sale on Ebay ligascon Swap Meet 0 24th February 2009 03:16 PM
PHILIPS DAC TDA1541A S1(double crown) kimi2005 Swap Meet 1 22nd April 2005 10:17 AM
Off topic: SAF........ fact or myth???? rabbitz Multi-Way 19 14th April 2004 11:24 PM
How many TDA1541A are needed in parallel to achieve double crown standard ? Blitz Digital Source 39 26th January 2004 02:26 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:21 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2