AES over Cat5e?

janneman · 9th March 2009, 03:19 PM

Hi,

I'm working on a new project that involves sending power, control and AES audio over cabling.
I was wondering if I could use Cat5e cable for that? I'd be looking at max 10m (30ft).
The characteristic impedance is 100 ohms, which could be padded for AES. The cable has very low xtalk and loss anyway, so presumably jitter wouldn't be that bad either.

Does anybody have any experience with that?

Thanks for your inputs,

Jan Didden

phofman · 9th March 2009, 05:28 PM

I have experienced great results with shielded Cat5 (STP) for S-video cables, e.g. http://www.avforums.com/forums/inter...onnectors.html

panomaniac · 10th March 2009, 06:29 PM

Hey Jan - IIRC the BBC did a lot of testing on this. They found that Cat5 was just fine for AES/EBU digital.

I don't remember the distances, but 10M isn't far.

See if you can google it up.

janneman · 11th March 2009, 09:53 AM

Thanks - I'll see if I can chase that up.

Jan Didden

panomaniac · 11th March 2009, 07:27 PM

Good, please post what you find.

HK26147 · 11th March 2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

...that involves sending power, control and AES audio over cabling

What is the power part?
The narrow gauge ( 22 - 24 ) would have too much DCR and too little ampacity, for much power.

janneman · 11th March 2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HK26147

What is the power part?
The narrow gauge ( 22 - 24 ) would have too much DCR and too little ampacity, for much power.

It only needs to supply some 100mA, so even with 1 ohms DCR I lose just 100mV. The DCR is about 60 milliohms/meter and current carrying capability is about 3-4amps.

BTW What's 'ampacity'?

Jan Didden

HK26147 · 11th March 2009, 09:07 PM

Ampacity is an industrial wiring geek speak acronym for Ampere-caPacity
Basically a conductive path like a pipe can only handle so much current.
See
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
Use the Voltage Drop Calculator by Gerald Newton
Insert the appropriate wire size and the power scheme ( ie Volt DC or AC ) and you get the Voltage drop, Voltage at load end of circuit, Per Cent voltage drop, Wire cross section in circular mils

The general guideline ( wire-size vs voltage drop ) is make sure the voltage loss due to wire size is less than 2%. HV becomes more efficient than LV, but then other issues pop up.
For DC power: DCR is a huge problem. AC power has other issues.

HK26147 · 11th March 2009, 09:30 PM

This might be appropriate to your scenario:
http://www.hescs.com/katalogen/91.htm

BTW: I have enjoyed your many contribution to audio, especially in the pages of AA, & more recently AudioXpress

Syd

panomaniac · 12th March 2009, 03:15 AM

The AES - BBC study is here:
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=10275

Only having read the summary, it seems that Cat5 cables are as good, if not better, for AES/EBU digital than the traditional cables.

I say go for it!

9th March 2009, 03:19 PM	#1
janneman diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Where Germany, The Netherlands and Belgium meet Blog Entries: 1	AES over Cat5e? Hi, I'm working on a new project that involves sending power, control and AES audio over cabling. I was wondering if I could use Cat5e cable for that? I'd be looking at max 10m (30ft). The characteristic impedance is 100 ohms, which could be padded for AES. The cable has very low xtalk and loss anyway, so presumably jitter wouldn't be that bad either. Does anybody have any experience with that? Thanks for your inputs, Jan Didden __________________ /“Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity - anon ------------------------------------- Meet me at Linear Audio

11th March 2009, 09:53 AM	#4
janneman diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Where Germany, The Netherlands and Belgium meet Blog Entries: 1	Thanks - I'll see if I can chase that up. Jan Didden __________________ /“Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity - anon ------------------------------------- Meet me at Linear Audio

11th March 2009, 09:30 PM	#9
HK26147 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2008	Just to show I didn't make the word up This might be appropriate to your scenario: http://www.hescs.com/katalogen/91.htm BTW: I have enjoyed your many contribution to audio, especially in the pages of AA, & more recently AudioXpress Syd

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9th March 2009, 05:28 PM	#2
phofman diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pilsen	I have experienced great results with shielded Cat5 (STP) for S-video cables, e.g. http://www.avforums.com/forums/inter...onnectors.html

10th March 2009, 06:29 PM	#3
panomaniac diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Carolina	Hey Jan - IIRC the BBC did a lot of testing on this. They found that Cat5 was just fine for AES/EBU digital. I don't remember the distances, but 10M isn't far. See if you can google it up.

11th March 2009, 07:27 PM	#5
panomaniac diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Carolina	Good, please post what you find.

11th March 2009, 09:07 PM	#8
HK26147 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2008	Ampacity is an industrial wiring geek speak acronym for Ampere-caPacity Basically a conductive path like a pipe can only handle so much current. See http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm Use the Voltage Drop Calculator by Gerald Newton Insert the appropriate wire size and the power scheme ( ie Volt DC or AC ) and you get the Voltage drop, Voltage at load end of circuit, Per Cent voltage drop, Wire cross section in circular mils The general guideline ( wire-size vs voltage drop ) is make sure the voltage loss due to wire size is less than 2%. HV becomes more efficient than LV, but then other issues pop up. For DC power: DCR is a huge problem. AC power has other issues.

12th March 2009, 03:15 AM	#10
panomaniac diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Carolina	The AES - BBC study is here: http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=10275 Only having read the summary, it seems that Cat5 cables are as good, if not better, for AES/EBU digital than the traditional cables. I say go for it!

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