Beis.de DA24QS DAC build

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Hi all

I'm opening this thread to document my attempt to build a beis.de DA24QS DAC. I'm starting with the DA24QS PCB and then I'll source parts from US sources.

I've chosen this project because Ewe has actually has PCB's available, I like the CS4398, and everything most is through hole. I have a hard time with SMT, I don't care what folks say.

I'd appreciate it if folks limit their commentary to constructive criticism directly relative to the build process. I know there are better DACs out there, but this one seems interesting to me.

First task is sourcing the parts on the BOM from suppliers in the US. One of the tougher parts is the Toshiba TORX147PL. Digi-key has them on order for October 2008. I've ordered two along with the LM4562, even though I may not use either. Most everything can be had from mouser.com cheaper. I'll post my preliminary BOM once I get that settled.

I do intend to use fancy resistors and caps on the output's signal path, but I haven't settled on anything yet. I'm hoping to use Nichicon KZ's for the electrolytics which I can source from Handmade Electronics but they may be too chunky for the job. The opamps may be swapped out for something else.

Stay tuned
 
Digi-key has the Toshiba TORX147PL(F,T) in stock! I got two. Get 'em while you can.

I also got a EPM3064ALC44-10N just in case the pre-programmed one I got has problems. I suspect sensitive parts are getting fried by my local postal service, but I have no proof aside from a collection of dead opamps and tripath chips that didn't survive shipping.

Finally I picked up a LM4562NA opamp from digi-key even though I'll likely use a pair of OPA602's instead.

Digi-key part numbers:
TORX147PLFT-ND
554-1972-ND
LM4562NA-ND
 
Here's a list of parts to get from Mouser. I still need to add appropriate ceramic capacitors, but I need to see what I've got about in my stash first. My selection of resistors is a bit helter-skelter, but I figure as long as the values are correct, I could care less about the manufacturer. I may have some that I can use from my own stash too. I've highlighted in red parts that I need to verify as being suitable.

549-C3392-25.000
C3392-25.000
Crystals CMOS Clock Osc 4Pad +/-50ppm 0/70C,Tri-State 25MHz

652-4605X-1LF-47K
4605X-101-473LF
SIP Conformal Coated Resistor Networks 5pins 47Kohms Bussed

652-4609X-1LF-220
4609X-101-221LF
SIP Conformal Coated Resistor Networks 9pins 220ohms Bussed


594-5053HD100R0F
SFR25H0001000FR500
Metal Film Resistors 1/2Watt 100ohms 1% SFR25H Series

71-CMF6010R000FKEB
CMF6010R000FKEB
1/4W, 1/2W and 1W Precision Metal Film Resistors 1/4 W 10 Ohm

273-180-RC
273-180-RC
1/2W 1% Metal Film Resistors 180ohms 1% 50PPM

594-5053HD1K000F
SFR25H0001001FR500
Metal Film Resistors 1/2Watt 1Kohms 1% SFR25H Series

71-CCF55-1.3K
CCF551K30FKR36
1/4WATT Metal Film Resistors 1/4watt 1.3Kohms 1% Rated to
1/2watt

71-CCF55-1.5K-E3
CCF551K50FKE36
1/4WATT Metal Film Resistors 1/4watt 1.5Kohms 1% Rated to
1/2watt

273-1.54K-RC
273-1.54K-RC
1/2W 1% Metal Film Resistors 1.54Kohms 1% 50PPM

71-CCF55-2K
CCF552K00FKR36
1/4WATT Metal Film Resistors 1/4watt 2Kohms 1% Rated to 1/2watt

660-MF1/4DCT52R3000F
MF1/4DCT52R3000F
1/4Watt Metal Film Resistors 1/4W 300 ohm 1%

660-MF1/4DCT52R33R0F
MF1/4DCT52R33R0F
1/4Watt Metal Film Resistors 1/4W 33 ohm 1%

660-MF1/4DCT52R3001F
MF1/4DCT52R3001F
1/4Watt Metal Film Resistors 1/4W 3K ohm 1%

271-430-RC
271-430-RC
1/4W 1% Metal Film Resistors 430ohms 1% 50PPM

660-MF1/4DC4701F
MF1/4DC4701F
1/4Watt Metal Film Resistors 4.7K 1% 100PPM

660-MF1/4DCT52R5100F
MF1/4DCT52R5100F
1/4Watt Metal Film Resistors 1/4W 510 ohm 1%

660-MF1/4DC6200F
MF1/4DC6200F
1/4Watt Metal Film Resistors 620ohm 1% 100PPM

271-75-RC
271-75-RC
1/4W 1% Metal Film Resistors 75ohms 1% 50PPM

271-82-RC
271-82-RC
1/4W 1% Metal Film Resistors 82ohms 1% 50PPM

863-1N5817RLG
1N5817RLG
Diodes- Schottky 1A 20V

78-TLHG4400
TLHG4400
Standard LEDs Green Tint Diffused

78-TLHR4400
TLHR4400
tandard LEDs Red Tinted Diffused

78-TLHY4400
TLHY4400
Standard LEDs Yellow Tint Diffused

595-LT1054CP
LT1054CP
Regulators - Non-Isolated Switching DC/DC Bipolar Regulated V

571-1-822473-4
1-822473-4
PLCC Sockets THRU-HOLE 44P

595-TL431CLP
TL431CLP
Voltage References Adj Shunt

595-UA78L05ACLPRE3
UA78L05ACLPRE3
Regulators - Standard 5V, 100mA Fixed Pos Voltage Regulator

673-PE-65612
PE-65612
Transformers CHOKES

512-BC63916
Small Signal Transistors TO-92 NPN GP AMP

512-BC640TA
BC640TA
Small Signal Transistors TO-92 PNP GP AMP

777-CS4398-CZZ
CS4398-CZZ
Converters - Digital to Analog (DAC) Stereo Multi-Bit DAC
192kHz, 120dB w/VC

777-CS8416-CSZ
CS8416-CSZ
Audio Interface 192kHz Digital Audio Receiver
 
I didn't add any electrolytic capacitors yet. I have some Nichicon Muse ES 10uF 50v's that I'll like to use. They're a tight fit, but they do fit in some places. I need to double check that. The leads on the Nichicon Muse KZ's are too chunky so they're a no-go. That and I've got all sorts of little Panasonics about and I'm not above transplanting good parts from dead electronics.

Capacitors 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, and 5.2 likely will have the most effect on sound and this is where I was hoping to use the KZ's. A film capacitor would be ideal, but finding something 100uF that is a reasonable size may be tricky.

I also need to part out a 8-dip socket so I can roll op-amps.

I could get real fancy and replace the op-amp stage with a tube stage instead! Heaven knows I've got the parts, but that could complicate things more than I'm ready for. :D
 
Hi White Lab Rat !!!

How is your project going ? I just received a Beis AD24QS Circuit Board which I will be working on. My quest is to use the best parts possible to keep the sound as pure as possible when it converts the digital to signal.

I would like to convert the signal to 192 kHz through the Toslink if possible.

Let me know how it goes.

Thanks much !

Mike
 
I'm taking it real slow. Probably the most important thing is getting the Toshiba TORX147PL which can be hard to source. Digi-key had them last time I checked. That and you'll have to program the EPM3064ALC44-10N.

It would seem that the only place you'll get any improvement is on the output stage. I don't think you'll get great results replacing every bit with fancy parts. The output stage will likely yield decent results. The opamp will likely make the biggest difference.

You could get real wild and modify the output to a transformer coupled output.

I don't see myself making any progress anytime soon. I hope to buy most of the parts by January.
 
I am in the same boat as you are. I want to source all the parts. I am in the middle of a speaker upgrade (upgrading caps). Will be updating those slowly.

I cant imagine getting fancy with small components such as resistors and diodes. They are so small that I cannot imagine they would make a difference going with something fancy. I may try it with the caps - may go with Black Gates on the electrolytics. I would love to know if there is a substitute electrolytic cap equivalent for audio quality since I heard BG is now out of production.

If you have any suggestions on improvements, I would love to hear them.

Thanks much !

Mike
 
It would appear that C4.1, C4.2, C5.1, and C5.2 and IC 3.3a and 3.3b will most effect sound. I think that those caps are part of a filter to cut off frequencies above 97khz according to the schematic. There may be opportunity to tweak that.

I was hoping to use Nichicon KZ's at those positions but the leads won't fit in the holes. I tried. So be careful. I don't see why you couldn't use non-poloarized caps here. Avoid the balance output stage if possible.

If I can get away with using a smaller value cap in place of the 100uf then a film cap becomes more possible. Black Gates may be good, but even a cheap film cap may be even better. A 100uf film cap isn't reasonable though so I may change the value.
 
I've finally begun to stuff the board. So far so good. After I got the SMD bits on I put in the resistors for the output section. I used PRP's where I could find the right values, an then cheap metal films otherwise.

I'm perhaps getting a bit carried away with the snakeoil, but I picked up a pair of Blackgate F's and then I realized I needed four. :xeye: Too pricey to buy just another two, so I ordered a whole set of Elna Certifine caps, and a set of Similic II's. I'll use them all, but I'm not sure where yet. I also got a bunch of Nichicon ES's for other places on the board.

The RCA plugs will likely be off-board, along with the input selector. I just couldn't find the right parts from a single source.
 

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Looks good so far. I may use PRP resistors, or maybe even Mills, but the Mills are bigger, are in 5 and 12 watt versions, and cost 5 ot 10 times the cost of PRPs. Maybe I will stick with PRPs as they are reliable resistors.

I purchased the board months ago, but have yet to start on that project. I am trying to complete other projects before starting wiht this one, which I need to start soon.

Think about using copper core RCA Connectors. I have used Vampire Wire CM2F/CB with fabulous results !

Good luck whitelab rat !!!
 
Made some significant progress this weekend. I miscalculated the value for the 100n capacitors as 0.01uf when it should have been 0.1uF. Luckily I had a bunch, but I also ran out so I need to order more. Also I forgot to order L1.2 (100uH) and L2.1 (47uH). They're Common Mode Inductors FYI.

I don't know if the small transistors I got have the right pinout. I know they're the right model, but I guess I'll have to learn the hard way. :xeye:
 

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Almost done. I'm just waiting on the metalized polypropylene caps to arrive. Obviously the caps are way too big for the board. I used Elna Certafine's for the output coupling caps for the pre-opamp filter. The RCA jacks I used had to be under mounted in order to fit. Otherwise they are a cheap solution. I don't have a jack for the power supply, so I think I'll just rig up something. I'm not sure what is + or - though.

Some additional parts used from Allied Electronics:

541-0277
648-0216
839-0970
900-0004
 

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I got it all stuffed and was able to do a smoke test this evening. I used a 12v 500ma wall-wart that was putting out about 13.5v under load. A couple of the LEDs came on. The Single Speed, Pro, Copy, and Emph lights came up. That doesn't seem right.

I don't have the Elma swith spec'd in the BOM so I used a jumper to select channels. I tried all the inputs. No sound.

:(
 
I've been troubleshooting with some help and I think 2 problems have been identified.

I had a solder bridge on IC3.1 that I fixed today. It was in essence dumping the ouput of IC3.2 to the ground.

IC2.5 seems cooked. I've got an unprogrammed spare, but that won't do me any good.

I don't suppose anyone out there in the USA could program a 44-PLCC EMP3064ALC44? It's a MAX 3000A. Or could anyone suggest a modestly priced tool for programming this?
 
I'm still troubleshooting, and haven't touched it in months. I've just moved house and everything is a shambles. I believe I've fried either the controller or the DAC.

One lesson I've learned is that using a super hot soldering iron kills chips. I'd like to try the toaster oven technique that I think will yield better results.

I just don't have time. :(

It seems that Uwe has released a simpler version of the DAC that may be easier to build.

The board is the most expensive part here in the US due to the exchange rate. It was about $60? I think Total you'd be looking at about $200ish in parts. Buy extras of everything too.
 
hi WhiteLab !

I am almost finished with my project - I hope. I have to order a Common Mode Inductor. I made the mistake on ordering a 100 ohm resistor, when I really need a 100uH inductor. I never knew that inductors were in a resistor form. Thanks to your info, I can source this part through Mouser.

Just to let you know, I am making an AD24QS, opposite of your project. The biggest challenge for me was the SOIC chips. I tried being very careful with soldering, however, I bridged a couple of pins, which required using a 40 watt soldering iron and desolder wick to be left on the chip for several seconds to remove the bridge. I hope I did not fry the chip. How can you tell if you fried the chip ?

If you plan to use PRP resistors or film caps in your project, try sourcing through Sonic Craft - www.soniccraft.com. They make their own film caps - Sonicap, which I have used in my speaker crossovers. If you give them a call, they will help you out with your needs. If you have specific questions about electronic parts, you may want to speak with Jeff, I spoke with him on numerous occasions and he has been a tremendous help when I rebuilt my speaker crossovers, so I am a Sonic Craft customer for life. It may take a few days before you hear back from him (he has a long list of people who he helps out with on their needs), but he has been very responsive and a tremendous help once you hear from him.

Keep in mind for the RCA outputs, you want to stick with copper cores (or silver cores, which there are fewer manufacturers and more expensive than copper core) to get the best sound output possible. It may be 10X the price of regular standoff RCA jacks, but it makes a difference which is not subtile !!!

Good luck with your project.
 
Have any members completed their Beis kits?

I've just completed a DA24DS, a simpler kit offered by Uwe. Construction was straight forward, it worked first time (battery powered), and so far it sounds very nice. It sounds 'quiet', very refined but with deep bass and punch when the music has it. My other dacs are heavily modded Zhaolu 2.x and Channel Islands VDA-1, and I have several DAC7-based Philips CD950s, and I think the DA24DS will easily keep up with the others that I have.
 
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