Which sound card has an SPDIF output comparable to an expensive CD Player?

[momitko]

I have got Terratec Aureon Sky 5.1 with Envy chip.
Today my friend brought his CD player Rega Saturn to my place and we sat listening to some music on an external DAC and comparing the digital outputs of my sound card and his expensive CD player.
In comparison to the CD player the optical SPDIF output of my sound card is inferior. There's less dynamics, less sparkle and air. Seems like a jitter related problem.
My sound card can be synchronised from an external SPDIF signal with a good clock. In an attempt to improve the quality of my card I connected optical output of Rega to the optical input of my sound card and then switched between external and internal clock on my computer.
Almost no difference.
Thus it appears that there's no point in synchronising to an external clock via SPDIF in.
Does anyone know whether digital outputs of other internal (PCI) sound cards sound close to an expensive CD player?
What about Audiotrak Prodigy H2 Gold?
Can its digital output compete with an expensive CD player?

[analog_sa]

Originally posted by momitko
My sound card can be synchronised from an external SPDIF signal with a good clock.

This doesn't sound right. It can probably take an external word clock, not an spdif signal. You may try improving the clock of the card itself or feed it a word clock from your dac.

It's not quite clear what exactly were you comparing anyway. How was the PC playing music? In real time from a cdrom or from the hdd? Using what player soft? Asio, kernel streaming? There are a lot of variables in pc playback, all of them can ruin the sound. Did you try a coax?

[spzzzzkt]

You could perhaps try something like a HagDAC usb -> spdif interface.

You also need to ensure that your computer is set up for bit perfect playback. Without this step you will not get good results from a sound card.

There are useful guides for bit perfect set up at benchmarkmedia.com

Windows:
http://extra.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki...Audio_Playback

MacOSX:
http://extra.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki...Audio_Playback

[analog_sa]

Originally posted by spzzzzkt
You could perhaps try something like a HagDAC usb -> spdif interface.

Hmmm. The worst of both worlds Such an interface brings industrial quantities of jitter. It may work ok with a very jitter-tolerant dac using either a secondary pll or reclocking but it's generally not a threat to a high end cdp.

[spzzzzkt]

Jim is a pretty clued up designer and their is a lot of good feedback on this design. It wouldn't be better than most of the junk masquerading as sound cards.

[analog_sa]

Originally posted by spzzzzkt
Jim is a pretty clued up designer

Indeed. I was shocked with his implementation of USB and his explanation was the pll in his dac. Probably works for him but i've tried an identical and a modified usb/spdif interface with a variety of dacs and the result was not pleasing at all.

Still, i know next to nothing about sound cards - you may very well be right.

[spzzzzkt]

Wow... I really shouldn't post before the first coffee of the day has kicked in :\ or use the spell checker!!!

You well might be right. I avoided USB when I bought an external audio interface and ended up with an Echo Audiofire 2 firewire interface. It doesn't seem too bad running a D1V3 DAC with a Tent VCXO/PLL via coax spdif but I feel that what I get from Teac VRDS-T1 is still slightly more transparent and detailed.

The Terratec is very much an entry level consumer card, so I wouldn't be expecting to much in the way of spdif/toslink performance from it. I have the feeling you would need to spend several times the cost of the Terratec to get something with a decent coax spdif interface.

[error401]

Originally posted by analog_sa



This doesn't sound right. It can probably take an external word clock, not an spdif signal. You may try improving the clock of the card itself or feed it a word clock from your dac.

It's not quite clear what exactly were you comparing anyway. How was the PC playing music? In real time from a cdrom or from the hdd? Using what player soft? Asio, kernel streaming? There are a lot of variables in pc playback, all of them can ruin the sound. Did you try a coax?

Two of my cards can do the same thing. They can be configured to use either their internal clock, or the received clock from S/PDIF. Both the ADC and DACs use this same clock.

The cards in question are M-Audio Audiophile 2496 and e-mu 1212m.

[momitko]

This doesn't sound right. It can probably take an external word clock, not an spdif signal. You may try improving the clock of the card itself or feed it a word clock from your dac.

No, my card can be synchronised from an external clock contained in SPDIF signal to the effect that when I connect SPDIF output of another digital device to the input of my card and push the "external clock" button its internal schematics is driven by an external clock. There's a digital receiver chip CS8415 inside the card. It just takes the clock signal that is recovered by CS8415 IC.

It's not quite clear what exactly were you comparing anyway. How was the PC playing music? In real time from a cdrom or from the hdd? Using what player soft? Asio, kernel streaming? There are a lot of variables in pc playback, all of them can ruin the sound. Did you try a coax?

I used Foobar player, ASIO plug in, ASIO4ALL and I was listening to music via Foobar from HDD.
Foobar was given real time priority. So as you can see it was done the right way.
The ripped music that we compared was extracted via EAC in secure extraction method and then by Plextools as well on a Plextor drive.

[momitko]

Did you try a coax?

Yes, I tried a coaxial output which I implemented on the card myself (my card has only an optical output and input).
I did not find any difference between the electrical coaxial and optical (TOSLINK) output on my card.
I should even say that optical output sounds a little bit better because it completely isolates my PC from external DAC.
I have a DIY NOS external DAC with asynchronous reclocking on CS8412 + AD1851 + OPA627 and I must tell you it sounds better than Rega Saturn's analog output.

I don't know what I shoukd do to improve the digital output on my PC.
I am planning to synchronise my card from the DAC' clock but I am not sure that it's a viable option because I will do it via CS8402 - TOTX173 - optical cable to my card - CS8415 on my card.
Also I could try to use the Tentlabs clock by substituting the card's quartz with the Tentlab's XO3.2.
Or alternatively I could buy another card.
The latest two methods require spending some money before getting the result. Therefore, I have decided to ask for help on this forum from more experienced guys on this matter than myself.
Can you recommend any sound card that might have a high quality digital output?
I don't want to pay for lots of features that I don't want by buying Lynx or RME card.
THis new card by Progidy: Audiotrak Progidy H2 Gold. I wonder if its digital output is better than my Terratec's.