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Old 21st April 2008, 12:30 AM   #31
spencer is offline spencer  Hong Kong
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I want to take out the chips from a dead equipment!!! Just like we know which CD player is using the Philips TDA1541 crown or double crown!! There seems to be lacking information on this part!
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Old 21st April 2008, 12:56 AM   #32
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Sony USA list the K2 as an in stock replacement part. The part number is for the DABK9001 D-A interface board (I've seen one listed used for $4500USD). Sony sell the part for $93USD per unit, but that is close to current offerings on fleaBay for a K part.

Ranger Audio list the Y as a pro-audio spare - pity they can't be contacted via email - so it seems certain the Y grade was used in professional rather than consumer gear. I wonder if the Y designation points to Yamaha usage as has been suggested for the KY?

I've discovered also the attached doc on the TI website announcing details of end of production for the PCM63 series P, P-1, P-J, K, K2, KY and Y. First official docs I've seen listing the KY!! Stated date of final delivery is before 15 November 2002, so final date codes should have been prior to that date. There might have been some variation on dates after this document was published but it does indicate that anything with a date code of '03 or later should be treated with caution.

I've also emailed TI Japan requesting information on the production dates of the PCM63P grades. Hopefully we will get something useful from them.


cheers
Paul
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File Type: pdf pcn20011113000a_final.pdf (12.0 KB, 180 views)
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Old 21st April 2008, 03:46 AM   #33
flshzug is offline flshzug  Antarctica
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according to Intersil corp.:

Resistor shifts caused by the thermal stresses of packaging :
These packaging shifts limit the accuracy that can be achieved using wafer level correction methods such as laser trimming, which has also been found to degrade the time stability of thin film resistors at the 14-bit level.
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Old 21st April 2008, 06:53 AM   #34
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beauty_devine for now I would say, that you should try your Y in a first class DAC.
Where I put my 63-Ks pretending to be genuine and the 63-Ys suspected to be fake is in a Sony CDP 338ESD, with heavily moded (by me) analog, digital an power parts. This way the machine sounds much better than the mentioned Parasound 1000 in a factory state, except DACs change from J to K grade. As mentioned previously the DF is SM5847 - best sounding so far to my knowledge so I assume the setup is correct.

To my opinion the only Ys that could be accepted as genuine should come from an old equipment and that would be obvious. Don't you guys mention that recently there were so many high grades of new PCM63s around, that has been an obsolete device for years??? When there is a market demand (even a handful of audiophiles) there would be supply too - basic economy
As to the analyzer check - indeed that would say the truth especially in the low signal level where the differences between the grades are much more obvious. I intend to do so - compare the SDR for K and Y grades in the -40dB, -60dB, -70dB and - 80dB output levels and will share the results.
As to now my Ks meet all the low level spec limits so I assume they are genuine BB and the CDP presents correct test setup.
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Old 21st April 2008, 08:00 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by flshzug
which has also been found to degrade the time stability of thin film resistors at the 14-bit level.
That's what I think, the resistors do age. Fron molding in plastic, from usage and from just sitting around.

Over the years a chip with any grade may change to any other grade, that's why I think spending lots of money on grades is useless.

I have tested S1 , S2, K, K2 and they have all been disappointing.
Some low grades have been much better.
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Old 21st April 2008, 08:03 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by beauty_divine

As to the analyzer check - indeed that would say the truth especially in the low signal level where the differences between the grades are much more obvious. I intend to do so - compare the SDR for K and Y grades in the -40dB, -60dB, -70dB and - 80dB output levels and will share the results.
Please post pictures off FFT of -60dB.
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Old 21st April 2008, 08:09 AM   #37
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Originally posted by Bernhard


That's what I think, the resistors do age. Fron molding in plastic, from beeing used and from just 'beeing'.

........

I have tested S1 , S2, K, K2 and they have all been disappointing.
Some low grades have been much better.
Indeed, resistors age but ... don't they age equally meaning the entire ladder so their ratio, consequently INL and DNL of the DAC stay constant?

If you say "disappointing", may you quote the measurements results, please? Especially the distortion products magnitude at -40, -60 and -70 dB to -80dB output levels @991Hz test signal.
If they still meet the spec there is no way to say so
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Old 21st April 2008, 08:13 AM   #38
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Contacting Ti was not much help. They informed me the PCM63 was an obsolete part. Like we didn't know.

Their advice was follow the counterfeit verification procedure - see the attachment...

So basically no joy.

It seems like a case of Buyer Beware.

I'd very much like to see the test on the Y's you have. It would be nice to know one way or the other if we were getting what we payed for.
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File Type: pdf counterfeit_cust_letter.pdf (24.5 KB, 164 views)
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Old 21st April 2008, 08:40 AM   #39
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Originally posted by spzzzzkt
I'd very much like to see the test on the Y's you have. It would be nice to know one way or the other if we were getting what we payed for. [/B]
Hopefully I will be able to test them tomorrow evening when I'm on my night shift. I'm so curious about this issue and the eventual results so there is no chance to forget
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Old 21st April 2008, 11:44 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by beauty_divine


Indeed, resistors age but ... don't they age equally meaning the entire ladder so their ratio, consequently INL and DNL of the DAC stay constant?

If you say "disappointing", may you quote the measurements results, please? Especially the distortion products magnitude at -40, -60 and -70 dB to -80dB output levels @991Hz test signal.
If they still meet the spec there is no way to say so

Please just go to:

New DAC measurement

I have not kept further documentation.

Posts 9 & 10 are a pair of PCM63-K2 tested with my first analyzer: K3 -55,1 dB and -52,1 dB.

Scroll up and compare with Philips and Pioneer bitstream converters and good PCM56, posts 2, 6 & 7. All better than -62 dB.

See also post 76 upper picture with newer analyzer: ancient PCM53, far below -60 dB.

I have collected a lot of PCM56 that all come close to the theoretical limit of -65dB.

So I call the K2 disappointing.

Still, it beats any TDA1540 or TDA1543 hands down
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