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ESS Sabre Reference DAC (8-channel)
ESS Sabre Reference DAC (8-channel)
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Old 21st July 2008, 01:01 PM   #861
Russ White is offline Russ White  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Terry Demol


Russ,

I don't think I have ever known a CD or dig source to need
de-emphasis.

WRT settling time, that is purely a product of the vary low CF
DPLL. Does it ever actually not lock or is the issue purely long lock
time?

Also, did you hear any difference between the different XO's you
tried? If so, which one was the best and what are it's specs.

cheers

Terry
Hello Terry,

You must not own many old CDs.

I probably have 20 or 30 pre-emphasized discs in my collection, all from the 80s. And these are just the ones I have kept.

I have found that some very poor SPDIF sources can actually fail to lock, or become locked and then unlocked even after locking at the "LOWEST" DPLL settings. This sounds aweful...

Cheers!
Russ
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Old 21st July 2008, 01:49 PM   #862
Terry Demol is offline Terry Demol  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Russ White


Hello Terry,

I have found that some very poor SPDIF sources can actually fail to lock, or become locked and then unlocked even after locking at the "LOWEST" DPLL settings. This sounds aweful...

Cheers!
Russ
Russ,

That is surprising, what was poor about the spdif source?
Level, noise, clock source, termination?

cheers

Terry
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Old 21st July 2008, 01:56 PM   #863
Russ White is offline Russ White  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Terry Demol


Russ,

That is surprising, what was poor about the spdif source?
Level, noise, clock source, termination?

cheers

Terry

That's a good question, it was not my source, so I did not dig very deeply.

All of my sources have no issues at all even at the LOWEST DPLL setting.

I think some sources just have some poorly implemented SPDIF outputs.

My best guess is it is noise that was the culprit, but I can't be sure. Termination of the DAC end is just fine, but source termination could be an issue.

Ross also has had similar experiences with a DVR of some sort I believe.

Cheers,
Russ
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Old 21st July 2008, 02:53 PM   #864
rossl is offline rossl  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Terry Demol

That is surprising, what was poor about the spdif source?
Level, noise, clock source, termination?
Quote:
Originally posted by Russ White

Ross also has had similar experiences with a DVR of some sort I believe.
I have tested two devices with very poor SPDIF outputs. I described the first one earlier in this thread, a Sony DVR on the digital cable at my home. The other poor source is a Sangean HDT-1X HD radio. Both of these use TOSLINK outputs, so termination or noise was not the issue. The sources just have lots of jitter. HD radio is not really high-definition, it is a compressed digital signal added on to the radio station's main analog signal.

Both I can get to lock by setting the DPLL down to 101 or "Medium-High Bandwidth". The Sabre will not stay locked on them with a lower DPLL setting.

Using the Wolfson 8804 as a SPDIF receiver and converting to I2S helped out a little. When I tried to feed the Sangean HD radio signal into the Sabre as SPDIF without the Wolfson chip, I had to set the DPLL to 111, highest, to get the clicking to stop.

I have never had a loss of lock playing 44.1K material at the lowest DPLL setting, 001, from my wired network devices. The Popcorn Hour or the SMCWAA-G. The 001 setting gives absolutely excellent stereo soundstage and imaging.

All the CD/DVD players that I have tried will play 44.1K material at the lowest DPLL setting, 001.

Occasionally the signal from the DVD player will lose lock when playing 88.2K or higher material at the lowest DPLL setting, 001. This is very strange because it will only happen about once every ten minutes. All I have to do to fix it is set the DPLL down to 010. The hi-rez material still sounds great at the "low bandwidth" setting 010, so that is not a problem.
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Old 21st July 2008, 10:24 PM   #865
Wavelength is offline Wavelength  United States
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Russ,

Quote:
My experience is this regarding I2S vs SPDIF. If you have a good SPDIF source there is absolutely no difference. Use the SPDIF if your can.
Well in my experience SPDIF has never been as good as I2S. So much so that I don't do any SPDIF at all anymore. Common it was not even a concrete design when it was invented. It was merly a way for Philips to test CD players without opening them up.

~~~~~

In regards to clocks and something Guido taught me years ago is that it doesn't matter if you spend $1 or $400 on a clock. If your power supply is not right then forget it. The modulation of the power supply is the primary culprit for jitter.

On my Sabre board I have I think 8 supplies. The OSC supplies that power the 0.5ps Crystek units were designed over the last 9 months. Funny thing is that the supplies for Guido's clock was not the same as the Crystek. The Crystek required allot more work. Anyways between 1-5hz the supply is less than 50pV of RMS noise. Above that it goes down lower. There are I think 18 parts in the discrete supply for the two oscillators.

The analog supplies (3.3 and 1.2 right and left) are all discrete with zero feedback and come in a little higher at 140pV rms from 1-50hz, lower above that.

There also seperate supplies for the upper and lower ring and the internal 1.2. I found some stellar cell phone regulators for those that are real nice a less than 180pV.

Off my soap box for now... boards in today. Should have something running by next week.

FYI I am doing TAS1020B USB using my ASYNC custom code to the Sabre.

Thanks
Gordon
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Old 22nd July 2008, 08:54 AM   #866
NeoY2k is offline NeoY2k  France
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wavelength
Russ,
Anyways between 1-5hz the supply is less than 50pV of RMS noise. Above that it goes down lower. There are I think 18 parts in the discrete supply for the two oscillators.
Gordon
O_o

What do you folks think about the Crystek CCHD-950?

I was waiting for another TCXO but after a loong time with the Vectron representatives... They stopped answering.
It was an amazing TCXO with 155dB phase noise floor... But the point was it had way MUCH less low frequency noise (more than 10dB @ 10Hz) than the 950 O_o

Good thing is that the Crystek is inexpensive.
Now that you told me clock doesn't plays much with this dac...

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Old 22nd July 2008, 09:48 AM   #867
just.sounds is offline just.sounds  Netherlands
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Default DPLL

The DPLL in the sabre is that a form of a ASRC?

Does anyone know where i can find information regarding this?
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Old 22nd July 2008, 12:20 PM   #868
rossl is offline rossl  United States
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Default Re: DPLL

Quote:
Originally posted by just.sounds
The DPLL in the sabre is that a form of a ASRC?

Does anyone know where i can find information regarding this?

A good place to start would be information in the white paper:

Technical Details of the Sabre Audio DAC
http://www.esstech.com/techsupp/sabrewp.pdf
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Old 22nd July 2008, 12:33 PM   #869
just.sounds is offline just.sounds  Netherlands
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Thank You!
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Old 22nd July 2008, 12:39 PM   #870
Russ White is offline Russ White  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeoY2k

O_o

What do you folks think about the Crystek CCHD-950?

That is one of the clocks I have tested. I found it to work very well.

Cheers!
Russ
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