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Old 4th February 2013, 03:12 PM   #2081
glt is offline glt  United States
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To be fair, Dustin Forman, the lead designer of the chip was involved during the initial implementation of the chip. I suspect they now realize that dealing with diyaudio folks may bring more harm than good... :-)
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:19 PM   #2082
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More harm than good for them yeah sure. US$60 for a chip, crap datasheet only on request, and no support, and an extra helping of marketing blurb. How have they been getting away with this ? Really, this is appalling. No support ! Good grief. There's something very wrong here.
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:33 PM   #2083
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glt View Post
......................................
I suspect they now realize that dealing with diyaudio folks may bring more harm than good... :-)
There is for sure an personal speculation... Harm for who/what? The chip its self, the ESS company, their crew...? Only lack of informations may lead to something which it may be harmful...
When one ask questions, do not ask as a DIYaudio member or in the name of DIY community/forum... Back someone who need more informations on this chip may be everybody...
ESS it used actually the DIY folks/comunity (very few in fact) to advertise for their (at that time) very new and performing DAC chip, and for an large testing of their designed component. This it were the TPA age and the developing of Buffalo concept. After ESS have done their "testing" (marketing/advertising and implementing technology), using DIY folks, all acces to informations were stopped... or ESS do not have any more the interest to deal with some one else about informations, and that because the joke with their Custom support/contact... It smells not quite nice all this...
There is not this way one may encourage the developing of products based on ESS components... But it seems that they have their own marketing strategy...

Sorry for out of topic intervention...

Last edited by Coris; 4th February 2013 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 4th February 2013, 04:12 PM   #2084
glt is offline glt  United States
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Agree, just personal speculation. I too have tried contacting them and got no answer.
I agree that the data sheet is bare by industry standards, but us diyaudio folks are very demanding and when our expectations are not met, we can quickly dismiss the company.

But ask yourself a question: if dealing with individual inquiries (like ours) does indeed increase their bottom line, why wouldn't they do it?
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Old 4th February 2013, 05:44 PM   #2085
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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Maybe it may be quite demanding for their Custom support dept. to answer all the questions from individuals... But it may be a solution to open their own forum, which they may lead and control, and answer to main questions it may come out from the discussions. If is about too sensitive details, they can just say that. This may be a way which is more near to the concept: Custom support. Better to answer something, that they do not want to give an answer, than ignore all the requirements for informations coming from they who in fact are their customers, who use their products/components, and develop eventual products, which at last will increase their business...

There are many examples of big companies which take actually care of their customers: there is Oppo which answer every question it may come from they who buy/use their products There is Agilent which have a such customers forum. Agilent representatives and specialists read posts in that forum and come out with answers when is needed, or have to... And so on.
I think ESS may want to review their policy directed to their customers, not mater this customers are big companies or individuals. Publishing the data sheet for their DAC chips it may be the first step...
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Old 4th February 2013, 10:39 PM   #2086
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Originally Posted by KlipschKid View Post
Wow, that was fast. It won't even accept any of my work or private email addresses. ********* won't even take an enquiry. Anybody wanna buy my DAC ? Seriously. I'm not supporting crap companies like that.
How much do you want for your DAC?
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Old 5th February 2013, 12:15 AM   #2087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndriyOL View Post
How much do you want for your DAC?
If you want the DAC, with Crystek xo (suits 44.1Khz), sigma11 psu, op amps (ada4627br, lme49990ma), kubota reg, and case (not finished).... US$250 +shipping+paypal fee. I'll even thrown in the 50Mhz saw, and 100Mhz and 125 mhz xpresso's. That's an "at cost" price, maybe even slightly below cost.

See here :

Build thread for Diyinhk ES9018 DAC on Ebay

I'm really serious. PM me if you are.

Forum admin - can I sell stuff here ? Sorry if that's not appropriate. Should I post an advert somewhere else ?

Last edited by KlipschKid; 5th February 2013 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 08:55 AM   #2088
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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I`m not the administrator, but just an opinion: those kind of things it may happen through PM procedure... But I personally do not think is inappropriate to just come out here with this message (once)...
Else discussion(s) it may goes on the topic, I suppose...
The discussion about ESS customers support policy, or theirs information policy is not just on topic, but anyway...

Last edited by Coris; 5th February 2013 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 02:37 PM   #2089
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My frustration comes from not knowing performance for sample rates vs clock freq. I'd hope that ESS would provide this information. We've only had hints from Dustin, which GLT has very helpfully collected on his excellent blog.

Anyway, that seems moot now. I just tried the SAW and I'm a believer. I doubt the SAW would have been spec'd by ESS so, in this way, I suppose it's a good thing they haven't given out info - it has encouarged people to try things and discover SAW works very well. Although I still think their lack of support is shameful, and, yes, my DAC is for sale.

Anyway, I have a question - has anyone tried a range of SAW frequencies ? What would be best for CD and SACD ? (This is most of my music collection). Anybody know ? Will the 50ppm parts sound better than the 100ppm ? I'd assume so....but maybe not audible ?

cheers

Tom
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Old 5th February 2013, 04:59 PM   #2090
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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About your frustration and angry against ESS disgusting behaviour. Again my opinion:
I think you should continue with your developing and findings. At last buy their chips and do it yourself the rest... As many other do.
There are more hints about ESS90xx, which is wrote down in this forum (TPA threads in the very beginning, when Dustin were interested in the new demo board concept: Buffalo).

The problem with SAW oscillators is that it`s produced frequencies it may difficult be adaptable to audio use. It were by chance that the 100Mhz SAW work for ESS9018... Else no any frequency those oscillators are produced is useful for us. I`m very happy with my 125Mhz SAW...
I do hope that some of the SAW producers will see the clue with audio adapted frequencies for those devices. But for at this it may happen, it is need of DIYs as us (you included...) and others who may bring out informations and details in using this type oscillator in audio world.

It may be like this that if you do not get answers at your above questions, then you may try yourself to find out if 50ppm it sounds better than 100ppm, f. ex... So, you should not sell your DAC, but use it to find out what ESS do not want to bring out to the light...
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